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On this episode, we’re gonna talk about generating leads on LinkedIn, what to sale during a sales call to close the leads, and how my guest was able to remove himself from the day to day in both of his businesses.

Jake Jorgovan is the Founder of Lead Cookie, a done-for-you LinkedIn lead generation service as well as Content Allies, which helps you to amplify your message with LinkedIn content.

I set the frame for the call. I'll say "Hey, this how I like to run the calls. On this call, we just try to understand if this is a fit, see if we can work together and help you out. And we've got a 30-day money back guarantee. And we offer that by basically making sure that we only pair our service with people we believe this is a good fit for."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • Why Jake decided to start an online business that focuses on LinkedIn marketing
  • How Jake has managed to remove himself from the day-to-day of both businesses, Lead Cookie and Content Allies
  • Why Jake decided to start Content Allies after the success of Lead Cookies
  • The LinkedIn outreach process that Lead Cookie uses (and so can you!)
  • The reason why many can't close their new leads
  • What to say on sales calls to close your leads

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Full Transcript

Chrys: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of hack your online business. Now on this episode we're going to talk about LinkedIn marketing as well as how my guest was able to remove himself from the day-to-day in both of his businesses.

Today's guest is the founder of Lead Cookie, a done-for-you and lead generation service as well as Content Allies, which helps you to amplify your message with LinkedIn content. So here's my guest Jake Jorgovan. Jake, thank you so much for jumping on this episode with me today.

Jake: Thanks for having me on here, Chrys.

Chrys: So you are quite the entrepreneur, aren't you? You founded Lead Cookie, you've recently launched Content Allies. Before all this, you launched an outbound marketing company as well. So did you grow up wanting to be an entrepreneur?

Jake: Not quite. Growing up, I guess I had a distaste for authority and rebellion. So I didn't like my early bosses. Even just like when I was working at a gas station in high school and some point I had this like rebellious plan of like, I'm going to go my own way and work for myself. And it was like years of being an idiot and screwing up and stuff and eventually somewhere along the lines, I guess I'm getting kind of decent at this. I still have a lot to learn, but you know I've gone a long way from when I was 19 and just refused to get a job.

Chrys: Let's talk about the idiotic years you had when you were younger. So those idiotic years when you first started your business, what was that first business you started?

Jake: So the first business I had was actually a... Basically it started off as recording company, like audio recording and then it moved into video animation and stuff. Actually, we did a lot of really cool stuff. We got like Fortune 500 clients, worked with a bunch of touring artists which is really cool. And I was also really young while all these going on. But I was idiotic because we never made much money. It was just like lots of revenue and lots of expenses.

And I just was like young, we didn't really know how to manage money at the business. We spent all this money on this cool fancy office and it's just like if we had money, we found ways to spend it. And I like never made more than most of my friends were making as they like graduated college and we're just going and getting jobs, but I looked really cool. And so that was like my first experiences. We accomplished some things, I built a team and that was cool, but we never made a lot. And then there were years of freelancing and consulting or just a lot of screw ups and just learning things there. And eventually that evolves into consulting and doing better and then actually building a product out of that consulting.

Chrys: Okay. So you were doing freelancing stuff and consulting. So when you decide to say, hey, you know what, I'm going to become an entrepreneur again, I'm going to go ahead and do this again, where did you find your first few clients for the consulting stuff?

Jake: Yeah, so what kind of came out of is basically after the agency I went and I just started doing freelance websites and just learning digital marketing and just all these random things. I was like when I started the digital nomad path and it was just anything people would pay me for, I would pretty much do it. And at some point along the lines I was like, wait a second, why am I doing $2,000 websites when I was selling hundred thousand dollar video projects at my agency. We had a lot of revenue and I was selling big stuff. We didn't know how to manage the backside of it properly.

But at some point I was like, okay, I was pretty good at the sales of that. So what if I just started working with other agencies and consulting? And so that became the career path for a period of time of saying like, hey, I am good at sales, most agency owners are really bad at this. And so I went on a path probably about like three years of just kind of consulting and advising other agencies on how to improve their sales, doing kind of sales consulting for them. And that was kind of like the whole journey or the evolution from freelancer into that consultant for a period of time. And then the consultant eventually evolved to Lead Cookie.

Chrys: So were you knocking on doors, like literally agencies, were you writing to them, emailing them, calling them? What were you doing to find these agencies?

Jake: Yeah, so it was some started off from my initial network. Some of it I was like blogging, I've been building up my personal brand for like seven years now. Some of it I was cold reaching out to people. I literally like... One thing that I think is if you're really struggling to figure out what to do in terms of a consultant, the question that helped me was what is the most valuable thing you've done in your career?

And when I looked back and was like, Oh yeah, I made all those sales that was pretty big. And [inaudible] just like immediately be like, okay. I literally just like getting that frame of reference. I first started off at network and then just really through content and writing and starting my podcasts and stuff, that is where a lot of the consulting started to come from was just like putting myself out there as a thought leader in ways.

Chrys: And so you were doing all these work with the agencies. How did you end up from there to LinkedIn marketing? I mean, LinkedIn back then was a recruitment website, right?

Jake:Yeah. So as I was getting into the consulting, and I think anyone who is in consulting, a really good frame to look at is: What is the question you're trying to answer? And that is the purpose of your consulting focus. And so my question was: how do agencies and B2B consulting companies win new customers? And so I was just constantly trying to get better at answering that question cause that's the big question for all these people. And at one point I literally had built this whole list of tactics. I was advising people and trying to tell them which tactics to go toward. And then at some point, I just like looked at LinkedIn and I was like, I don't really know this one that well. I just hop on LinkedIn and I surf around and I comment and I post some stuff. I randomly get customers from LinkedIn, but I don't really know what I'm doing here.

And so that was where I was at. I wasn't a LinkedIn expert and I just said okay, so what will happen if I just got really at LinkedIn? And let's see what if I went all in on this channel for a bit - what I could learn? And so I just started studying. I went out and I started looking at people like Josh Turner and John Nemo and these people that were writing and putting out their ideas on LinkedIn marketing at the time.

And I just started implementing them and I think I closed three deals within the first 60 days of doing it. And I had ton of responses and calls that were getting booked out of this and I'm just like, Whoa, that was quick. That worked. And somewhere at that point I just had the idea of, ah, LinkedIn marketing agency. What if I just built a business around this niche cause I don't see a lot of competition here and I see it being something that's getting really good results. And so that was kind of the Genesis and I guess how that initial idea started.

Chrys: Were you nervous focusing solely on LinkedIn marketing because LinkedIn is often compared to the other social media channels, even though it is not a social media platform. But a lot of people were like, you know, Facebook marketing, Facebook, Instagram. So were you ever nervous that, oh my God, what if LinkedIn were to go bust?

Jake: LinkedIn going bust was never concerned to me cause I knew it was big and I've just see the improvements that they're putting into the platform and I just know it's getting better and better. But the bigger concern is do the tactics that we use ever become irrelevant or if the platform change enough and just like crazy, just like we're running our whole service on there. You've probably experienced this with the messenger bots and stuff as well. They roll out a change and it's just like, God, man, we gotta change everything, like our whole processes again.

Literally this morning we woke up and for some reason LinkedIn has your LinkedIn inbox and your sales navigator inbox. And previously, it was just this inbox over here that existed separately and now they're starting to actually use it in separate messages and we're like, oh my God, everything's changing again. So it's just like all of our workflows and processes get disrupted and stuff, and it's not like it kills us or anything, but it's just those are the bigger fears - the platform changes can be a hassle at times.

Chrys: Yeah. It's so funny cause sometimes I get clients asking like, why would I need a monthly retainer with you? And I'm like, dude, if you don't get a monthly retainer with me and when Facebook changes shit up, you're all by yourself, man. You're literally all by yourself. So one thing we didn't talk about is right now you're running Lead Cookies and also Content Allies. Can you give us an idea of what both companies do?

Jake: Yeah, so Lead Cookie basically it's done for you LinkedIn lead generation. So we manage someone's LinkedIn profile, reach out as them to their target prospects and start warm conversations. So very simple and we help basically people get conversations with more of their target customers. So that's Lead Cookie. And then Content Allies, very young. Literally it's only a few months old, still kind of iterating it. What we're at today, which we've, I think since we booked this interview, have been updated the value proposition. We started off just doing LinkedIn content and now we're doing LinkedIn content and email newsletters for our customers.

So one of the biggest problems we've seen from customers and Lead Cookie or I just see from all the consulting that I've done is that most B2B companies are really bad at nurturing their prospects, staying top of mind and email marketing. And so content marketing, getting all the way into that is like a big investment. And even if they do that, they struggle to promote it and get it out there. So we're taking that low hanging fruit of taking their curated content or re-promoting their content into email newsletters and LinkedIn content. And that's what we're doing. Content allies.

Chrys: Was there a reason why you decided to have them both as separate companies instead of just putting it right under Lead Cookie?

Jake: Yes. So that was definitely a decision I was trying to debate for a while, but what really kind of came down to was, it is a very different promise. And if you go into content and you are about the promise of leads, which is like inherent in the name of Lead Cookie, you're setting up for bad expectations. We learned that... Like I actually launched this as lead cooking nurture. That was how I initially launched it before I split off it into a new brand.

And there were a few customers that came from Lead Cookie and they were like, cool, this is great. And then they were like, I don't have any leads. And they're cancel in 30 days. I'm just like, ah God, no, like that missed the point here. So I just realized this is not the right... It's just if you go into it with that promise, we need people that are thinking, okay, nurturing people, staying top of mind with my leads and appearing as a thought leader and building my brand. Those are completely different value levers than lead generation. And so just trying to change that brand promise is like really why I split it out.

Chrys: Alright guys, go check out leadcookie.com after today's show. So before we go onto the show, let me do this very quick read. Today's show is sponsored by my messenger marketing agency, Chrys Media. So we work mainly with coaches and online course creators to help them fill up their diaries and webinars and online courses with Facebook messenger marketing. So if you are a coach or an online course creator and you want to sell out your coaching packages, your courses, you want to fill up your webinars and your diaries and then go check out my free online training on how you can use Facebook messenger marketing. Go to hackyourownbusiness.com/messenger after today's show.

Jake, have you heard about Facebook messenger marketing?

Jake: I have. Yeah. I actually had a buddy Justin Tan who runs Video Husky gave me a rough training and a mastermind on it at one point. So it was super cool. Really useful though. I have not used it but I saw like the power of it and I got to experience being the customer of it and that stuff with Video Husky. But yeah, I've heard of it but I have not used it that much.

Chrys: You should try it. I mean there's so many things you can do as a B2B company. It's amazing. It's amazing the possibilities. Now before we talk about LinkedIn, I am curious because you've told me that you've removed yourself from day to day of both businesses and that's amazing. I would love to remove myself.

Jake: I'm not there with Content Allies yet. That one is definitely... I'm trying to max at 20 hours a week on Content Allies, but I'm still definitely in the weeds on that one.

Chrys: Exactly. So how are you doing this right now with Lead Cookie?

Jake: Yeah, so basically with Lead Cookie, it has gotten to a point where it was just kind of piece by piece. From the start of Lead Cookie, I hired out the operations. So all the delivery. I was just doing strategy and that was the first year of me being the strategist and having other people basically doing operations. A little bit around somewhere between a year, a year and a half, I brought in an account strategist to help out with that. And so that was really helpful and this was a more difficult thing to hand over, it takes longer to train. But I got the actual creation of strategies and everything like that off my plate and someone in there who I can just like, he's awesome. He's better than I was now and he's rocking it.

So got account strategy off of my plate and then eventually... So sales was the thing that I probably held on to for the longest and eventually I hired this great guy who has been a cold email consultant cause it's a very consultative sale we have. It's more picking the right customers than it is selling. And just making sure that we're going to find people that are actually a fit. So I finally got that off. So just like piece by piece, I just got that off the plate and now it's just like, what do I do here? It's just like role by role, you just kind of slice it off, slice off, slice it off.

And it's really crazy. 5 months ago I was still doing all the sales calls, sometimes 20 hours of sales calls a week and you just hand over that role and then one day it's just like, all right, I'm free. And then you watch the metrics, you make sure you've got KPIs that you can keep your eye on it. I coach with my sales guy every week and just advise him on stuff, but this is the first time in business that I'm like, Hey, I'm letting my hands go and things are still going smooth and metrics are still up. So this is cool.

Chrys: Was it intentional that you intentionally go into hiring people just to work lesser?

Jake: Yeah, so it definitely been a goal. So for me, the whole kind of purpose behind the business that I build is freedom. And so the purpose is to build more freedom for myself, my team and our customers. That's like why I build businesses. And so for me that's freeing myself up from this has enabled me to work on Content Allies.

But even with Content Allies, I'm trying to do a hard limit at 20 hours a week and not work more than that. And that lets me do things like personal development, like literally I'm over here learning piano right now. And trying to just explore and not just have entrepreneurship as an identity and work all the time. I've been workaholic most of my life. And so now it's trying to temper that and create intentional balance.

And it's an interesting thing cause working less, you actually get to a better mental spot, you make better decisions and the outcomes can be phenomenal. I just hustled for years and I always relied on hustle. But eventually over time you realize that working less and just getting yourself into a good mental spot and keeping yourself there, you make better decisions and you don't have to hustle.

Chrys: That is hilarious. I was literally with... I went to an astrologist just to read my stuff. It just sounds like woo woo, but one of the things she said was I obsess, like I obsess way too much with my business. So I focus on it and I just spend all my day just doing that damn thing. And then she was like, don't obsess. Don't obsess about it. And I'm like, okay now I just need someone else to obsess about it for me because that's the only way I'm going to stop thinking about it, cause if I know there's this thing I need to do for my business, I'm just like, oh I need to do, I need to do it.

Let's talk about LinkedIn outreach cause I think that's your thing. So walk us through your LinkedIn outreach process. I personally hate reaching out to people, I struggle with LinkedIn. I am still struggling on LinkedIn and I've had experts, I've talked with people who do LinkedIn. So talk about your LinkedIn outreach process.

Jake: So there's two core pieces of it. The first is just getting your profile optimized and looking good. And then the second is the actual outreach piece. So I'll dive in really quickly on the profile optimization. Two big things to think about with that is first of all - your headline on LinkedIn. The big mistake most people make is they're just like CEO, founder. That's what they put in their headline. And you got to think of that headline field on LinkedIn is like a blog post headline. It's like your chance to hook someone in and get them interested in talking to you.

So when you kind of change your perspective on that, and like I'm using it to say like, we help B2B companies generate more leads or a Facebook messenger bot expert or get more leads for your coaching business, whatever that is. And you change it to something that is actually going to hook someone's attention. That is the first optimization on the profile. And then the second profile optimization is really around making your profile about your prospects and not about you.

So some people are just like, this is where I went to college and then I did this and I played sports and then I went to college and this was my first job... and no one cares about that, especially if you're like B2B sales. So if you're B2B sales, you want to change your profile and make it actually talking to your customers' needs. So they land on that and they look at that and are like, hey, this person can solve my problems. So that shift from resume style profile to kind of more sales copy on your profile or marketing copy, that is like the two initial shifts to make when looking at your profile optimization.

Chrys: I'm going to read out my title and you tell me if it's good or bad. Oh God, this is tough. All right. It says: Messenger marketing funnels. I help coaches and online course creators fill up courses, webinars and diary with messenger marketing. Is that good or bad?

Jake: So it's good you've got benefit oriented, although you're going to need to cut it shorter because LinkedIn... If you actually go look at your connection requests - that used to not be like this, but if you look at your inbound connection requests, you'll see people get cut off. And that's because you can have a headline longer than what actually shows up in a lot of the places where the headline appears on the interface. So if you can shorten that up, get it short and sweet, that'll probably help out. Or just put like the less important information at the end of it and the hook at the start,

Chrys: I feel like everyone's going to be like, everything's important. I'm wondering what's yours, do you remember what's yours, Jake?

Jake: I literally updated it today. I'm like not sure... I'll sit on it, cause I'm literally starting a Content Allies outreach campaign. Yeah. So mine right now it says nurture your prospects with LinkedIn content and email newsletters, then hyphen founder of Content Allies and Lead Cookies.

Chrys: Oh way much shorter than mine. Yeah.

Jake: Well it's actually a rather long, but this first half part is the first chunk is the hook. And then I figured out the second half of it, the founder of the two companies piece will probably get cut off and that's okay. So I'm just kind of putting that there to keep the hook there and not totally disregard my Lead Cookie stuff.

Chrys: Do we have to use keywords in all these descriptions, in our summary or bio as well? Do keywords matter for LinkedIn?

Jake: I feel like they used to, but I think people use LinkedIn as a search engine to find people more. Maybe that's just me, but I like, I had like, I used to get leads like that and I don't feel I get many people searching to find a provider on LinkedIn like they used to. Yeah. I don't know why, but I feel like that doesn't happen as much. That used to be a thing, but I don't think SEO optimizing your profile on LinkedIn is as useful as it was. It can't hurt. But I just see less and less people using it that way.

Chrys: So once we're done with the bio, I'm assuming like beautiful pictures of yourself, like professional photos, testimonials, I guess those are important as well. Once we're done the bio, so what do we do? You talked about a second stage, let's talk about the second stage.

Jake: Yeah. So basically this is the point where you're probably gonna want to get LinkedIn Sales Navigator for this, especially if you're gonna do any sort of volume. Otherwise you're going to hit a very quick limit on a free account. And so what you're gonna wanna do is really just kind of use, if you use LinkedIn sales navigator, you can get together filtered lists of people you want to go after.

So if you want to go after health coaches that are in Tennessee and they are like health or fitness coaches, you can get really specific at that. Or if say you want to go after the CEOs of agencies that are between 11 to 50 employees. Like you can get all into that field. 

And so if you use sales navigator, it's a super powerful tool. I've got a whole blog posts on my site that goes with like the real deep nuances of like how it works. But it is amazing to put together targeted lists of your prospects. So that's the next step of just finding and learning how to use sales navigator to find your ideal prospects. And then what you really want to do is just start to do reach out to them. And so you can do this in kind of a higher volume, which is kinda what we do at Lead Cookie, where we'll send a large number of outreach to people and then try to kind of start conversations. Or you can do this kind of really targeted and get really personal with everyone. So both produce results.

But you know, either way, even if you go personal, you're still gonna need to plan on a volume of at least like a few hundred to probably get results even if you're going like pretty decently personalized with your outreach, just cause not everyone is going to be interested. But really just you start to send a connection request, say, hey, saw we're in the same field, or I saw this about you, thought I'd want to reach out to connect and say hello. Try to just give some context there as to why you're reaching out.

And then after that, what you don't want to do, you don't want to just go pitch them. You wanna try to start a conversation in some capacity and that could be offering a resource to them, that could be asking them a kind of probing question to start a conversation. It could be anything around thanking them to connect and then just seeing where the conversation goes from there.

But the key is to not pitch them right out of the gate and just try to start a relationship and start a conversation with them and just get that dialogue going. That is step one. And when you just try to show up in someone's inbox and be like, hey, wanna hop on a call with me? That's kinda frustrating.

Chrys: Where I struggle right now is that, okay, so I've sent out the connection requests and I've included a note as well with all of my requests. And then they accept it and I'm like, hey, thanks for connecting with me. I would love to connect you with anyone in my network. I thought that was like giving, right? You're giving some value before you ask for something. And sometimes crickets, they don't even say thank you. Is that a wrong approach or do some people just don't ever reply?

Jake: I think the problem with that is that if you think [inaudble], it's inherent work. The person on the other side is going to have to go... like, do they even know how to look at who your connections are. That takes work on their side and are they your connections good? Are you even trustworthy? It's just there's a lot of things that they don't know cause they don't know you.

And so some ways that I would look at approaching that is say you're reaching out to coaches, like, hey, how are you getting most of your coaching clients today? Or, hey, have you ever looked into messenger bots or tried this out, or what's has been your experience with Facebook advertising or something like that. Or hey, I've got this guide on how you can get more customers with Facebook ads and messenger bots or something.

But something where you're either offering a resource or you're probing and trying to start a question, those will be more of the angles that I would take toward it as opposed to... and just try to think to make it really easy, low friction for them to respond. The more work they have to do or the bigger the commitment is, the less likely there is to make that initial jump of response.

Chrys: That is so interesting because, I don't know, maybe it's just me, I feel like offering a resource right after they connect with me or telling them that, hey, have you heard about Facebook messenger marketing or chatbots or Facebook marketing. I feel like that that is salesy, is that salesy? Would you consider it as salesy?

Jake: So I'll share the question I used for a long time when I was doing the Lead Cookie outreaches: how are you getting most of your customers right now? That's what I would ask B2B companies and they're like, oh referrals, word of mouth. Some people would tell me, hey, I'm doing LinkedIn outreach. It's like, oh cool you're already doing it. But that was wasn't directly salesy cause I'm not like, hey, are you interested in LinkedIn outreach? But I was like, hey how are you getting most of your customers?

And then I would actually respond to people, advise them and try to give them some thoughts or feedback or some people are like, yeah, that sounds awesome, great work or stuff, or I may recommend something to them if they're just totally failing and they need some lower hanging fruit. So something to qualify them with that question and maybe not just blatantly say, hey do you need to hire this service right now? Cause that that probably does come across as salesy. So trying to get it in that realm but being conversational about it.

We had one that was a good one that was these guys that were Salesforce consultants. They would reach out and ask, hey, are you currently using Salesforce? Just curious on a scale of one to five, how happy are you with it right now? And it was interesting cause it was really easy. It's like, okay, I like one to five, let me give it. And if anyone would respond to less than a five, they would say, okay what would it take to get you to a five? And they're offering to try to help them improve their adoption of the platform and stuff like that.

So things like that can be really interesting. Just trying to think how do you make it super light and easy for them to respond, but also maybe give you some intel in that question as well.

Chrys: Okay. So if someone, after you've said, hey, I've got this free stuff for you, or you ask them a question and they don't reply. Do you still want to continue to message them or do you just kind of be like, okay, this person didn't reply - out.

Jake: Yeah. So we'll do a up to four messages. Four messages for people that have a higher customer value or a small client pool. If you're going after solo coaches, you've pretty much got an endless market cause there's a lot of them out there so you may not need to go to a full four message sequence cause someone might've just not replied because they are not really qualified.

Chrys: Do you want to... I almost said unfriend them. But that's Facebook. You don't unfriend them. Do you want to remove the connection?

Jake: I don't typically do it cause I do a lot with LinkedIn content as well, and so I think there's benefits of people being in my network and seeing that over time. But I would say, if they don't respond to that second one, wait a week or two, try to reach out again, maybe take a different approach, try offering a call, maybe try offering a different resource or being a bit more direct. And then the fourth one, the last one, we'll typically just be like, hey, here's the pitch. This is why we think we can help you and be really straightforward.

But that's kind of our approaches. Connection, thank you message after someone responds, and then basically wait about a week or two, send a message, wait another week, send a final message. And that kind of is the approach we use and we don't go too much beyond that. Some people do message five, but I think it gets a little risky if you're sending that many unanswered messages on LinkedIn.

Chrys: Here's the thing, leads are pointless if we cannot close them, right? So a lot of us don't know actually how to close them because we didn't have that sales training as entrepreneurs. So what are some mistakes you've seen people make with closing the sale after you've brought them the leads?

Jake: This is a big thing. And so all of our customers, we send them through this video course that we've created because a lot of people have not done outbound before and outbound is way, way different than inbound. It is a harder process to close. So if you get someone that comes inbound that comes from content, they come from a referral, that's like someone putting a ball on a tee for you and just like having you hit it. Cause it's like they trust you, they like you, they have a need today and they're ready. And so inbound leads are just always the best, and if you can get those, that's phenomenal.

But the problem is that not everyone can always have those predictably. And that's why people start turning to outbound as well to augment that. And so with outbound, there's two things. One, you can get a lot more outbound leads ramped up really quickly, but the problem is they don't trust you. And so the way you think about it is you do all this work on the front end to get to that point of that inbound lead inquiring because you did all that work to build that content. And then it's easier on the sale with outbound like you haven't done any work, so you've gotta do all the work post-sale to build that trust.

So like outbound leads - much more likely to ask for references, they're much more likely to say what testimonials, they might take an extra call or two to close. With inbound leads, we'll do a one call close. Outbound leads - most of the time it takes two calls. So it's just things to be aware of and conscious of that. These people are going to inherently be more skeptical. They're going to trust you less. They probably understand your service last cause they haven't actually gone through your website as much. So that's a really big thing, that trust factor.

And then the other part is that the buying cycle, and this is where like the whole idea of the email newsletters and the LinkedIn content comes into play, because when someone's coming inbound, they're saying, hey I've got a problem, I need your help to fix it. When you reach out to someone outbound, they might say, hey this sounds really interesting. I like what you guys are doing but I don't have a need today. And that's like a large chunk of market. You're going to get some people where you hit it lucky and you just like land a project right away. But sometimes it could be that one of those that takes nine months to turn into a deal.

We had one customer, he had been with us for over a year, took him 11 months and then they closed a quarter million dollar deal. So now they're happy. But that's just the thing with buying cycle. When you're reaching outbound, they could've literally hired someone for your area of expertise yesterday. You just missed it, you can't know.

Chrys: Are there things we should not be saying in outbound calls?

Jake: Nothing too much. I think it's just going into it and just understanding the mindset of being aware that it's different and that you're going to need to build more trust with them and probably take more time with it. I think just going into that and just having that mindset and not getting frustrated when it doesn't go as easily or as smoothly as an inbound lead is probably the biggest thing.

And to realize if someone ghost you or maybe they go a little bit unresponsive at times, it's just cause you're not a priority on them yet. You haven't proven yourself. So it more or less not what not to say, is that you're probably going to have to do more to get it to that close.

Chrys: Can you share with us your sales pitch or the different things that you might want to include or say in that call, especially for the outbound call?

Jake: Yeah. So for the outbound, the biggest things is again, it's the Robert Cialdini aspects of influence and social proof and stuff like that. So anywhere in those calls that you can really demonstrate expertise, whether that's through mentioning other customers you have, offering references or case studies, offering portfolio at points, anything like that.

So anything you can do to really demonstrating, give credibility and believability. That's what you really want to do on those initial calls to really build up that trust with them. And then the other thing is that the more touch points you have with them, the more they're gonna trust you. So it might even just be that first call to getting to know them and then you don't even talk like pricing or projects. It all depends on your product and your sales cycle, but each time you email and message back and forth, every touch point that you have with them and every response you get from them in an email is like a little bit of trust that's built up.

And so even something as far as whenever they confirm or like a booking with just being like, hey, great, looking forward to our call. Every single little thing like that just builds that trust as opposed to just appearing like some distant human who just got them on a call or something. So just over-communicating and just being human. That just helps build that trust.

Chrys: So would you recommend that we basically first talk about what we can do for that person and then bring in that social proof? Or talk about the social proof first and say, hey, you know, I work with all these people, this is what I got, and this is what I can do for you now.

Jake: What I always look at it is like... Actually I have my sales call scripts for Lead Cookie entirely on my website. What I basically do is I open up, I'll set the frame for a call and I'll say, "Hey this is how I like to run the calls, on these calls we'd just try to understand if this is a fit, if we can work together and help you out. We've got a 30 day money back guarantee and we offer that by basically making sure we only pair our service with people we believe this'll be a good fit for. And so what I like to do is learn a bit more about your business. And then I can share a bit more about what we do and how that would specifically apply to your business. Let me know if that sounds good to you."

So that's like the general flow, that's literally almost verbatim what I say. And most people would be like, yeah, sure, that sounds good. But some people are like really weird, they're like, just tell me what you do. That's probably not going to be a good fit anyway, you know? And at that point I'll just learn more about their business, try to really understand so that when I do switch to talking about our services, I can put it in context of their business and this is how we would approach it and this is our thoughts.

So I always try to learn before diving into straight selling. I've hopped on sales calls and anytime someone hops on and they'd start going, it's like, whoa, man, don't you wanna know about me? Like you just wanna hop on. And if you're a buyer, you just want to talk for awhile and tell him your situation.

Chrys: That is so true. Now before we end off this episode, I'd like you to give my listeners two tips. One on how to become a better entrepreneur like yourself, and the second tip on LinkedIn lead generation that we have not covered in today's episode.

Jake: Yeah. So in terms of becoming a better entrepreneur, the biggest thing I'd say is quit looking at all the solutions outside of yourself and thinking that the next course or the next book is going to solve all your problems. They can teach you things and they can be helpful in the journey, but be conscious of finding the perfect silver bullet. And whenever you start to get away from that mentality and instead you look at constantly growing and investing in yourself, but looking at, okay, where's a skill set that I'm weak or where a mindset that I'm weak, and starting to study and learn something, that is like how you become more well rounded and fix these areas of weakness.

So for example, I'm starting to work with writers, a lot of creative people at Content Allies, which is kind of new. We don't have that many creative people at Lead Cookie, just a few, so it was easy. So I'm reading a book on managing creative teams.

I'm also reading a book on product development so I can learn how to manage software products or build new features into our services. I'm looking at what are areas that I'm weak and how do I study resources specifically that are going to help me improve in that area? So that's one thing I'll share, I guess just from the entrepreneurial side.

Chrys: Now what about one more tip on LinkedIn lead generation that we've not talked about?

Jake: Yeah, I'd say the biggest thing with LinkedIn is to be human on there. Even if you're gonna do like a high volume of outreach, which you can still do that and make that look like semi personalized, but the key is after you get someone engaged is to just be human and really try to engage with them and have real conversations.

One of the biggest things is just being on there no matter what approach you take. Just be considerate and try to look at the real people on the other side of it. It's just such a simple thing. But we've had customers who... we get them responses and then they'll just like blast out e-Books or template and responses. I was like, whoa, no, you have people that are raising their hand interested, be a human here and look into their stuff and try to put some work into evaluating them.

So even if you're gonna like go higher volume, once you get someone who's responding, take the time to invest into them if you really want to turn that into a deal and it's worthwhile.

Chrys: Now that is a perfect way to close out this episode. Guys, don't forget to go check out LeadCookie.com after today's show. So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Jake. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes, the links, and everything that we just talked about today. Thank you so much, Jake. I appreciate your taking time to come on the show today.

Jake: No problem. Thanks for having me on here. Chrys.

Thanks For Listening, My Friend!

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