Leveraging the power of influencers is one of the strategies brands are turning to in order to rise above their competition. So how can online businesses engage influencers to promote their brands?
On this episode, I chat with Susana Yee, founder of Digital Everything Consulting. Susana is a marketing expert and a pioneer in the field of social media and influencer marketing. Her Guess “Color Me Inspired” campaign went viral and Mashable named it one of “5 Interesting Pinterest Marketing Campaigns.”
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Chrys: Today we're going to be talking about influencer marketing. Leveraging the power of influencers is one of the strategies that brands are turning to in order to rise above their competition.
Today's guest is a marketing expert and a pioneer in the field of social media and influencer marketing. Her Guess Color Me Inspired campaign went viral and Mashable named it as one of the five interesting Pinterest marketing campaigns. Here's my guest, Susana Yee. Susana, thank you so much for jumping on this episode with me today.
Susana: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Chrys: All right, let's talk about how you got started with influencer marketing. Back in 2007, you started a personal fashion blog when everyone you knew kept asking about where you bought your fashion and that gave you a realization. So tell us more about that.
Susana: So in 2007, I started a fashion blog because everyone would say where did you buy that, did you get it on sale? And I'd say, yeah, I bought it online, I found it on sale, I did a search, I found it and I compared prices and here's what I found online. And after people kept asking me over and over again and friends asking me, I thought, okay, well I'll just send out a newsletter and just say, once a week, here's what you asked me about, here's a link to where to buy it. Then one day one of my friends said, why don't you just start a blog? And I said, what? You got an email about it and you can automatically have an email sent about it. They sign up for the newsletter and I thought, okay, let's just do that.
I started doing that and then brands started coming to me and saying, can we advertise on your site? And I thought, oh, okay, sure. Let me just do that as well. And during this time I was working in business development for a startup company. I was learning about startups and just the digital marketing side of things and marketing world from that end - from a big brand perspective, but I was just starting to see from a small business perspective and also from the publisher side what people were doing to earn money. So I was doing this on the side and I was learning a bunch of stuff, including about affiliate marketing to working with brands and doing events and everything in between.
So I guess I was learning on both ends so it was very interesting for me to see both sides of it. And as my blog started growing in popularity, there weren't a lot of blogs back then and there wasn't anything called an influencer, it's just a blogger, I wrote more and more articles that expanded from fashion to lifestyle to food to travel and other brands started approaching me. Then when brands came to LA, they would say, we want to get more influencers together, bloggers together to have an event, we want all of you guys to write about it, can you get some people together? So I started doing these blogger events where I invited them for brands and that's sort of how my business started in a nutshell.
Chrys: A lot of times we get friends telling us things like, Oh Chrys, I enjoyed your travels. You should write about your travels, you should start a travel blog, start a travel website. And I've never done any of those because people say things all the time, but you actually took your friends' advice and created something out of it. And that's impressive. Did you think that this was going to eventually be a real business when you first started doing this blog?
Susana: No, I mean it was really just fun. I just really liked writing about these designers and what was new and if I found something on sale, I just thought it was really cool. I wrote it like I was writing an email to a friend - here's what I found today and this is on sale and this is where I found it and here's the link to it. So the blog really just started as an email to a friend and it just kept going like that and then it became a little bit more professional. More than 10 people started reading it and then when brands decided to polish it up a little bit more.
And it just organically grew because of an interest, then I saw a business opportunity cause on the other side of that, when I was working for startups, I saw that agencies were approaching brands to do certain things, but there was still a gap. There was just influencer - blogger type partnerships that weren't really a lot of PR type stuff, it was more about celebrities back then.
So we just saw a small gap and I decided to talk to brands about these opportunities and said I'm already doing it on my own, but if you want me to do it for your company, I'd love to work with you. And I really just started small and made sure that everything I did was going to work out as opposed to trying to go too big and do something that I couldn't really make succeed. So yeah, I took little bites of projects and made sure that they work out.
Chrys: When brands started approaching you and this was getting serious and you were thinking about possible collaborations you could do with these brands - going one step further from just being a hobby. Where did you learn about influencer marketing? Where did you learn how to connect with other influencers or bloggers out there? What did you learn how to even start? You know what I mean?
Susana: I mean it was the craziest thing. I think is because of my interest in what I was doing and also the fact that I just liked connecting with the other influencers and bloggers that are out there. So we would hang out and really just see each other - if you were sitting at a show or a fashion show and we were talking, we would trade tips on how to do certain things. Then I found that because of my day jobs, I was learning a lot on the day job as well. So I was able to sort of give both perspectives and I found that from my insider view as a blogger/partnership person/influencer publisher, I was able to give my perspective to a business. Then I realized I actually have more knowledge than a lot of other people do, and that's when I realized there was a gap that could be filled because I had sort of inside knowledge on both ends of it.
Chrys: And now you obviously have evolved it into an agency called Digital Everything Consulting. So what does your agency Digital Everything Consulting do today? Can you tell us more about your agency?
Susana: So basically companies will come to me and they have sort of a wishlist of things that they want to accomplish. So most people, they want more sales, they want more partnerships with influencers, they want better ads, they want everything, right? So then I usually look at their companies from a holistic view and I say, here's what it's going to all cost for you to do this that you're asking for and what I think you need to do, and here's what we can start with for most bang for your buck.
We usually start small and then we grow together and it's worked out quite well because I've been hired two or three times by the same head of brands when they move companies, so I think that means something. I was recently contacted again by a GM who was GM for two other companies that I did work for and they want to work with me again now that they've moved companies.
But what I always do is I always approach it from a holistic point of view. I always see how everything connects and I work backwards: So what is the goal? Do they want more branding? Do they want more partnerships and do they want more sales or do you want all of the above and what can they afford? You sort of put it all together that way.
Chrys: And who do you work with these days?
Susana: So I work with mostly startup companies that are in their B to C round, meaning they're no longer angel, friends and family. They'd gone out to institutional investors, they've gone out to venture capitalists and they've gotten some money. So these are people who probably got between $3 and $6 million and are hoping to get their next six. That's sort of my sweet spot or people that I work with because they have some marketing in place in terms of people working for them internally. They have worked with an agency before, they understand what a budget is, so it's not just like one person who does everything. There are several, at least 10 people in their company.
Chrys: And how big is your team right now?
Susana: My team is really about five people and I work closely with three people who are very close to me, who helped me with managing my projects and keeping me organized. I also have partner companies, agencies that I work with that do some of the heavy lifting that I don't do. For example, I partnered with a company that does web development that's a pretty big agency. They only do web development and SEO infrastructure type stuff and e-commerce build outs. So I partner with them when I have a client that is having trouble in that area and I manage the whole process for them but I made sure that I send them that way because I trust them.
I have people that help me with graphic design and I have people who can help me with content when needed and I really just made sure to guide everything and approve everything before it goes out. My relationships are very personal and some of the influencers that I've worked with on at least two or three campaigns - if they're bigger campaigns or influencers that have driven a lot of sales or success for me, I keep very close relationships with those people. I work personally with the head of the company and also the influencers.
Chrys: And one of the early successes that you had was your Guess Pinterest campaign that actually went viral in 2012. It was mentioned as one of the top five Pinterest campaigns by Mashable. Can you tell us more about this Guess Pinterest campaign that went viral?
Susana: Yes, so it went viral because we were thinking outside the box. And what that means is I was part of our partnership with another company that did web development and graphic design. So they brought guests to us and we ran the PR and the social media marketing and partnerships part of the business and they said, we have an opportunity with Guess helping them with new skinning and website development for a long time. They're a longtime client, but they really want to try something new and they want to make a change and what do you think we can do about it?
So we looked at them and said, it hasn't been too exciting but it looks like they're launching a color denim collection this season. So let's go with that. We looked at who all the upward and coming influencers were at that time, they were really looking like they were making a lot of noise out there and doing some great things and interesting content. We reached out to four of them and said, would you like to work with us on a Guess campaign? What we'd like to do is have you create a pin board wearing one of the colors - so red or green or a light blue or something like that. So pick a color that you'd like to wear, shoot it, and then create a pin board around it with all your inspiration all coming from guests and all around this one color, making a color story.
And then from there we said, how can we make this go and make it very exciting online and offline? So we created a $500 giveaway online and offline and we told them to tell their followers in order to enter for their chance to win a $500 gift card, what they needed to do was create their own pin boards based on the inspiration from the influencer that they liked that they were following. So that meant if you liked the influencer that was wearing the red denim, you would create a red pin board and that would be your inspiration, you would tag Guess on Pinterest.
And how we ask them to do this was to make sure that when they were creating the pin board, they either went into a Guess store and took photos of the stuff themselves and then pin it to their pin board or they went online and found stuff on from the Guess online store and pin it to their Pinboard.
And so what happened was because everybody was interested in learning this $500 gift card, everybody was also interested in checking out what was in store and checking out work online. It caused a lot of interest and basically went viral because so many people were interested in doing this activity to win the $500 gift card.
Chrys: Did this entire experience and the recognition that you got helped your business attract more clients?
Susana: Yes, it totally did because we're thinking outside the box and we said how can we make this as exciting as possible? And we realized that when we leveraged the influencers, followers and their followers to do something in order for a chance to win a $500 gift card, and if they did it and they have enough of an influence to drive enough followers, it would probably go viral because the follower's followers would do the same. That's kind of what happened.
Chrys: So you started seeing more clients come in after this whole Mashable recognition and clients were like, I want to work with your agency now because you got recognition by Mashable and I want my brand to get recognition as well?
Susana: Yes. So they came to us and said how can you do this for us? So depending on what it was, you have clients who aren't fashion, we have clients who are consumer electronics, you know, like eco vacs was one of our clients. They're a public company and they do the robotic vacuums that go around by themselves in the house. So we created a fun campaign for them that was about dogs. We actually had their users enter a contest where they had their dogs and cats riding around on these vacuums around the house and they did videos of them, so that got a lot of attention also. So that was a fun campaign. We just think outside of the box for their brands and make it fun.
Chrys: Let's dive into the business part of your agency. So what I want to know is how are you getting clients these days? Are they mostly through word of mouth or are you actually doing other types of marketing as well?
Susana: Most of it is word of mouth. I don't feel like we've ever closed anyone who didn't come through a referral and I'm seeing a referral loosely. A lot of times it's people who have worked with us, but then sometimes it's people who just have met us and have worked with us loosely. Meaning, maybe they were at the brand, but they didn't work directly with us but they saw the campaign happened and then they moved to another company and then they said, oh, we know that that agency worked with that brand that I worked with before, something like that.
Or a friend might've heard about the campaign and their friends said, well I'm looking for somebody to help me with influencer marketing or partnerships or digital marketing or something like that. And they'll say, oh well we know that her company does that cause she had that dog campaign. Other than that, we do some advertising, we do some Facebook ads and we don't do LinkedIn ads, but if somebody gives us a nice testimonial, I'll post it on LinkedIn.
And that usually really helps - people like seeing what our clients have to say about us, and our clients are really nice and very complimentary and have been really great about giving us testimonials. So we always use them, we ask for permission and they allow us to use them. So we use them in Facebook ads and LinkedIn.
Chrys: How long were you running your agency before you started realizing that, okay, now I am finally doing something great here financially with my agency, it's working.
Susana: A long time. I don't know, probably 10 years. The company started in 2010 and then we sort of merged in with a partnership and then we branched off again. So it's been about 10 years. I feel like this year has been a really good year.
Chrys: What is so special about this year that you feel like it's finally that year?
Susana: I think it's finally because we've had several clients who have come back to us a few times and we realized it's working. You know, sometimes the thing about the agency world, it's about churn, right? After a year, if somebody leaves the company, then somebody new comes in, then they'll bring all their agency people with them, so then there's just change. It's constant, right? So that's just the nature of the beast with the agency world, so you never know how long they're going to be at a company.
Even if you're doing a great job because if they replaced the head of marketing, usually they like to bring in their people that they trust, that they work with. But I guess a good testament to that is that even people we've worked with that move companies, they always bring us with them and then also even if they're not working with us and somebody asks for referral, they refer us out. So I'm seeing a lot of that this year, which has been really nice.
Chrys: We talked about the Mashable campaign, which was one of the high highlights of your agency. Now that we're looking at the past 10 years, what was the lowest moment for your agency?
Susana: Well, I think there was one year, I don't know when it was, I would say five years ago when suddenly we realized that we were spending so much time concentrating on clients at hand that we weren't going out and finding new business too. It's a fine line, you know, it's a learning process, like when things are going well, you're working all the time and you're just so busy, you don't have time to find new business.
There's a fine line between keeping your agency alive and growing too fast and then sort of finding that it's not working. We sort of got to that point where we grew really fast and we had a lot of employees and then the clients weren't there when they finished, when we finished with somebody and they moved on, we didn't have anybody in the pipeline. So we sort of had dead time for a while, maybe six months or so and it was really not good.
And so we made some changes, we got rid of a really expensive office, we started looking at hiring people who were more flexible - a lot of people now work remotely, right? So we started taking advantage of that because with remote people, they'll do work anytime they feel like it, but they always get their work done. And so we started recognizing that the economy is changing where a company like Buffer, I mean most of their workforce is remote and they've done really well.
So we realized that we needed to leverage that as opposed to people who come in everyday and sit at their desks because a lot of people don't want to do that, A, and B, when they do that, there's also a lot of wasted downtime, maybe in the middle of the day they'd rather go to lunch and not come back. So if they'd rather go to lunch and not come back and they'd rather work after their kids are asleep or you know, early in the morning before their kids go to school, whatever it is, we want to be able to work with people who are talented and hardworking who wants flexibility.
Chrys: And I totally agree with that. I mean hence the online business space that we are in at the moment. I cannot imagine myself going back to my former agency and working at a desk. I cannot because I think I spend more time talking to my colleagues than I actually was working. Susanna looking at everything that you've done so far, what do you think sets your agency apart from the other influencer marketing agencies in your industry?
Susana: I would just say that we're really good at thinking outside the box and I'm not saying that we're better than these people. There are a lot of great agencies out there and I've seen some of their work and it's super talented. I think we're just not that top heavy or heavy in general. They usually get a lot of my time in terms of looking at the big strategy and then I work with everybody on my team to make sure that we deliver a great product and nothing goes out.
Here's the thing, I mean I feel like there's a lot of great agencies out there, but there are some agencies are really, really big. What you're getting is somebody who's pretty new and pretty green and even though you're paying the big agency prices and so what's happening is maybe it's not as much experience as they are paying for, I guess is the one thing that's great about working with my agency, which is smaller and more boutique.
Other than that, I just really think we always think holistically about a whole project and you don't just say you're working with us in terms of influencer marketing, that we're just looking at that piece of it. We're also thinking, how are you going to be reusing that content?
We want to make sure that you're repurposing that content. We want to make sure that once you get this piece of content that's been out there sent out there by an influencer that you've partnered with and sponsored with, that you're also repurposing it on your end.
Chrys: All right guys, so Susana actually created an online course for small business owners and people in the digital marketing space who want to learn how to create influencer marketing campaigns for their own clients. So the course is called the influencer marketing roadmap, and more info can be found at learninfluencermarketing.com after today's show.
Now, before we go on, today's show is sponsored by my messenger marketing agency, Chrys Media. We work with our clients to help them get more leads and increase engagement and sales with Facebook messenger marketing. So if you want to learn more about Facebook messenger marketing and how it can help your business, then go check out my free online training on how to use this marketing channel. So go to hackyouronlinebusiness.com/messenger as a today show.
Susana, you're in a marketing space, have you heard about Facebook messenger marketing?
Susana: I have, but I haven't used it at all. So you can tell me a little bit about it.
Chrys: Awesome. So let's talk about that later because I want to dive into the world of influencer marketing. So for those who have you who have not heard about influencer marketing, Susana, can you summarize what it is and why it can benefit online businesses?
Susana: Influencer marketing is great because you are literally hiring somebody, a publisher who is a one stop shop for everything you need. So instead of hiring a graphic designer, a content writer and then hiring a publication that has a following and then also hiring a digital marketing firm, you sort of have an all in one because this person already has a following. This person is going to create their own content, write their own content, shoot their own content as well as distribute their own content.
So you are getting a one stop shop when it comes to digital marketing and these people usually have a very engaged following and a very targeted audience. So if you are selling health and wellness products and you go to this person and this person is talking about paleo health and wellness products, that's as targeted as you can get. This person will make sure to distribute your content written for you about your product in a sponsored post, they'll shoot it for you in a way that has the look and feel that fits their audience and distribute it for you and you'll be sure to get a bigger return on your investment than if you just sent it out with your own brand, whatever your brand is, and you create a Facebook ad because people trust other people and they're looking at what their peers are talking about.
They're looking at what influencers are talking about. They trust these people, they're experts in their fields and they've done a lot of research, the public is turning this way as opposed to looking at an ad and saying, okay, well you can talk about yourself all day long, but if somebody else is writing about you, giving advice on why they think your product is the right fit for their audience, it's definitely a better way to market.
Chrys: And I think a lot of people also have this misconception that influencer marketing is all about the fashion space or the consumer goods space, right? We typically see celebrities promoting clothes and electronic stuff, but actually, influencer marketing can apply to any industry. Social media marketing, the marketing space, the top marketers. Are there any industries that influence marketing wouldn't apply?
Susana: No. And I think that's where the misnomer is. I think people don't understand that anybody can be an influencer if they are influential in their space. And what I mean is, for example, if there is a doctor who's very influential in sports medicine, they can talk about a sports medicine product, they could talk about a supplement, they can talk about a piece of new technology that's come out for sports medicine.
Maybe it's just specifically marketed to other doctors. Maybe doctors will be using a piece of technology for their patients, they have somebody who is an influence. So a doctor in this space who they trust and maybe they have a lot of followers, well this person could be an influencer to other doctors who are in the sports medicine space so we get down to that kind of niche.
Chrys: And you've been in the influencer marketing space for many years now. Have you seen a change in the industry from, what's it, 2007 till now?
Susana: Yes. I feel like now it's very targeted and very niched, meaning people are really turning towards micro-influencers, nano influencers, sort of like the same thing with Facebook. People are going towards the private groups. It's not so much about hiring an influencer even if they have millions of followers just talk about your product. You have to be super targeted and that's where brands are starting to do. They're looking at a platform also, they're looking at YouTube and they're looking at Facebook and they're looking at Instagram and Snapchat and they're saying, where should I even hire this influencer to work with me and what type of influencers should I work with?
So sometimes your influencer might not have a great following on Instagram, but they have an amazing following on Tik Tok. Or they might have an amazing following on YouTube. They don't have such a great following in Instagram. This person could also be as specific as somebody who only has 4,000 subscribers on YouTube, but they are the expert on eyeliner application and you're promoting an eyeliner so it can literally get to that point.
That's how people are marketing now because the people that are following these very smaller influencers, the micros and the nanos, are a very passionate crowd and they actually are seeing a 10 to 15% engagement rate when it comes to these smaller engaged groups.
Chrys: I feel like a lot of people have this misunderstanding of perhaps thinking that influencer marketing is pretty expensive. It's reserved for the bigger brands and at the same time I know that smaller brands can actually jump onto influencer marketing. A lot of my listeners run small online businesses. Is it possible for them to jump on influencer marketing as well?
Susana: Yes, it is. Just know that when you do that, the most effective way obviously is to make sure that you have some sort of budget and I mean you can hire a nano influencer for $50 or even a hundred dollars or even you could give somebody just some free product and ask them to write about you.
But if you really want targeted marketing where they're doing specifically what you want them to do, meaning drive people to your site, have them use a coupon code or talk about a specific product, I think a combination of the payment and a free product would be the best way to do it otherwise you're not really incentivising them to do more for you. But it can start for as little as $50 an influencer.
Chrys: $50, that's for the nano influencer, right?
Susana: For nano influencer, yes, and we're not talking micros or macros. So nanos, anybody who has 5,000 followers and under.
Chrys: Okay, so nanos, those were 5,000 followers and under. What about a micros and, oh my gosh, there's so many terms with them. So what's after the micros?
Susana: Micros are people who have about, I would say 5,000 to about 20,000, 30,000 that's a micro. Once you go 50,000 and up, they are more of a macro. Between 50,000 - 100,000 these people have a pretty engaged following, they will move products, they will definitely drive engagement, so they're great but also they just cost more. And then once you get into the 100,000 mark and up, that's when you really have to decide if you want to work with them or not.
They cost more money to work per person and usually when you do a campaign you want to work with at least 10 to 15 influencers at a time to really drive some type of experience and movement to make some noise cause the internet so congested these days.
I guess what I'm saying is even if you work with a nano, you can't just hire one nano. You really need to go in and say, okay, I'm going to work with 10 nanos this week and we'll work with 40 nanos for 2 months.
Chrys: You don't recommend us actually working with just one at one time. You're saying go out there, get 10 to 40 of them. Do you have an example of an online business, preferably not a big online company using that strategy of having 10 to 40 influencers and getting real results from it? Maybe a past or present client of yours.
Susana: Even our client, Ecovac robotics where we did the dog campaign where they all had their dogs on the robotic vacuum. It was a contest that we were driving and we actually engaged about 15 nano influencers. They weren't micros, most of them were equipped with one of the vacuums, which were probably $150 to $200, so that was their payment. And then we asked them to drive their followers to enter this contest to win a robotic vacuum, and the winner would be featured in one of our social posts. Everybody was tagging us and having their pets on the vacuums going around their house and they were creating videos of them.
What happened was because we engaged with a few influencer nanos and had them show other people that this is a contest that was going on, everybody created this user generated content which then was part of the contest. It created a lot of activities, but if you just have one or two people doing this for you and they don't have a big following, it just doesn't create as much activity because it's exponential.
Chrys: Okay. So for my listeners who want to learn about running their own influencer marketing campaign, you actually teach them how to do it in your DIY influencer marketing campaigns. Bird's eye view, walk us through what do we need to know about getting started.
Susana: I think what you need to know is what is the budget in mind. So a lot of companies that are small, they always think, well, we're just going to pay them $100 and then they're going to make it happen. But just don't forget your cost of goods that you need to give them as well. So if you sell pants and they're $100 a pair, they need to shoot the pants, right? So you're going to give them the pants so that they can shoot the pants.
So you can pay them $100 and then your pants are $118 or $120 - your cost might be $50, but that has to be all built into your costs for the marketing as well. Also, we will negotiate for you when we do it, but you can negotiate yourself when you DIY it to have them allow you to use the content in your ads later to repurpose the content, and that's how you get more most from it. And as a result of that, you might have to pay them a little bit more for usage fee. So there's usage time - you might have to add in that kind of thing also.
Just a few things to think about when you're doing a campaign, it's not just a hundred dollars out for an influencers, so you also have to give them the item that they need to shoot. You might want to use this content if it is good enough for the next six months in ads.
How much do you want to spend in ads - that's an estimated cost for your ads for the next six months that you're not going to spend right now. How much do you have to pay them for usage fee if they're gonna charge you usage fee. Usually nanos don't charge you usage fee but micros do.
Chrys: If they want to go out there, DIY, find all these influencers, do you recommend that they come up with a list of 10, 20, 50 people and then start negotiating with all of them and trying to find out who's cheaper and rates and all that stuff. What's that process like?
Susana: I think the best way to do it is to in your head already know how much you willing to pay in general, and start with a number in mind. Make a list - I would say I advise 30. Start with 30 people because especially if you're smaller brand, these people get emails all day long. I mean a lot of these micros get 100 emails a day. In the email and the header, it has to say something like: sponsored posts, sponsored campaign, and then put the name of your company there. Something like that for them to open their emails cause they get a hundred emails a day.
Some of them have PR people that says, look at this celebrity they were at this event, will you cover it? Most people don't cover that. Some people are looking for content so they'll cover it, but that's mixed in between all the other sponsored paid opportunities out there.
So you have to sort of stand out and if you're a brand that no one's ever heard of and you're paying $50 and free product and then there's a brand that everyone's heard of that's paying $50 and free product, but they want to say they've worked with them cause they're a big brand, their time is limited because most of these nanos have full time jobs, but they want to sort of build their careers as an influencer, they are going to choose to work with the other companies that they know.
Chrys: That is a great tip over there. All right, now before we end up this episode, I'd like you to share - what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur?
Susana: Every day is different and if you don't love that everyday is different, that is not going to work as an entrepreneur. There are going to be some amazing days where you cannot believe what you've accomplished and I think it's a building process. Every single day day that I've owned my business and my company. I've learned something and I think we need to look at every experience as a learning experience that builds for your company and for your career and always have the best attitude.
Even if someone is asking you for advice and it seems like it's a waste of your time, but it's free, give that time because you just never know where the opportunities are coming from. So I always say keep an open mind, that's how I do my company work.
Chrys: Now this is a perfect way to close out this episode guys. Go check out learninfluencermarketing.com after today's show to learn more about Susana's online course on how to create influencer marketing campaigns for your own clients or even for your own online business. So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Susana. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes, the links and everything that we just talked about today. Thank you so much Susana, I appreciate you taking time to come on the show.
Susana: Thanks so much for having me. It was really fun.
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