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EPISODE 078: HOW TO BECOME AN AUTHORITY IN YOUR INDUSTRY WITH KATE AHL

How do you become the authority in your industry? In this episode, I explore how Kate Ahl has grown her Pinterest marketing agency and becoming one of the most sought after Pinterest marketer.

She is the founder of Simple Pin Media, a Pinterest marketing and management company, and the host of the podcast Simple Pin podcast.

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"I would say the biggest lesson that I've learned over time is not to do it alone. You need people: you need either a mastermind, you need a coach. This is all new as an entrepreneur in this journey, so you need to find those voices that you trust that will give you good feedback."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • The story behind how Kate started her Pinterest management business after her husband became unemployed
  • How she managed to get her first few clients
  • The importance of working with the right clients and how that affects retention rate
  • An early success that Kate had which exploded her agency
  • How Kate has established herself as an authority in Pinterest marketing
  • The benefits of her 18,000 strong Facebook group and how it helps her business
  • Kate's Pinterest marketing tip for online business owners

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Full Transcript

Chrys: On today's episode, we're talking about how my guest has grown her Pinterest marketing agency and becoming one of the most sought-after Pinterest marketer. She is the founder of Simple Pin Media, a Pinterest marketing and management company. So here's my guest, Kate Ahl. Kate, thank you so much for jumping on this episode with me today.

Kate: Yeah, you're so welcome. I'm happy to be here.

Chrys: I've been in the social media marketing space for a long time and I know quite a few Pinterest marketers. You are probably one of the most well known Pinterest marketers out there.

Kate: Well, thank you for that. I told you before we started, I have heard that before, but I think sometimes I don't always let that sink in. So thank you for that compliment.

Chrys: Print it out and put a little badge on your table, and you can say you're one of the most famous Pinterest marketers in the world.

Kate: Totally, signed by you.

Chrys: And here's the thing, you actually started this business, Simple Pin Media out of a total necessity, right? Your husband lost his job back in 2013 and at a time, you were earning a part time salary, you had a family of five. Can you tell us more about everything that was going on back then and how Simple Pin Media came about?

Kate: Yeah, so it was 2012 and he lost his job in 2013, we lost unemployment. So yeah, I was working on a blog, I was doing Facebook marketing, I was doing Pinterest marketing and then blog administration. So I knew all about affiliate marketing, writing posts and everything. And we came to the end and it felt like there were just no other options. Everybody was moving to Pinterest after Facebook had changed their first business page algorithm.

And all of a sudden you were either a page that got lucky or a page that didn't. So those who didn't have lucky pages were looking to Pinterest because they have not yet changed up their algorithm, they were still chronological. And so as we started to explore that, the friend that I was working for said, well why don't you manage people's Pinterest pages? Because there was so much confusion with Pinterest as to how to go from a personal user to a business user and that felt easier for them to do on Facebook for some reason than it did on Pinterest, and so they just felt like they were struggling.

So I looked at her and I was like, that is a dumb idea, like that's never going to work. And she said, "well why don't you just try? You have no other options." So we were driving to the beach and the name Simple Pin Media came up as... Really, I wanted it to be very simple. I wanted people to understand cause I knew the mindset of, at that time working with bloggers, they have so much on their plate, they don't need anything more. They just want somebody to take things off their plate.

So I thought I'll start with three beta clients, I got the domain name, ended up with a super simple website and said, "hey, let's just start and see if this works. Give me feedback. I'll give you a super discounted rate that you'll be grandfathered in for life. And then we'll see if this works." And that was in January of 2014 and they told a few other people and they told a few other people. And before we knew it in July of 2014, I had eight clients, I was doing it all by myself.

That was the big decision and another shift in our family where we had to decide - is this going to be something where we bring somebody on to help? And then later 2014 we had another decision where we decided it's no longer going to be a side hustle. We wanted to pursue to be a full time business. So that's how we got started.

Chrys: So you had eight clients back then. How long does it usually take for a client? Is it a monthly retainer or is it like a three months project?

Kate: Yeah, it's a monthly retainer, and what I told them in the beginning too is I said, "you can cancel anytime if this just isn't working for you. And so just give me at least 30 days notice so I can obviously switch things". Now we tell people we want them to stay on for a full three months just because of how different Pinterest is now. It's a much slower burn, you need to get that time under your belt. But we really didn't have any problem with people leaving, which was great. People could afford it, people loved it, they thought it was great.

So on the monthly retainer, it would take me maybe an hour a week per client, a little bit more on just the pinning. But I was really, really, really set on communication. I wanted them to know, not in an over way, but I wanted to be very targeted in my communication that they could receive one email a month and go, "oh this is all I need to know. Okay, we're good. Now I can focus on other areas of my business".

Chrys: So you started off as a solopreneur and then you had someone join your team. And now you have 11 people?

Kate: 40.

Chrys: What? Say that again. That's a classroom of kids.

Kate: It is! 40 people... Now not all of them are full time. So if we break it down, I have essentially 10 full time people - if we kind of merge them all together. But initially, the first person I hired was a good friend of mine. It was actually five years ago right now. And I said I just need somebody to help me, at the time, find outside contents and just just be with me in this. And I don't think I knew if that would go to another team member, but it was more I just need someone in case of emergency.

Well then when we got to November, I had a big recommendation by a fellow blogger and my email just exploded with referrals. It was at that point that I went, "oh, I think I need somebody else. Oh, and are we going to do this as a business?" So it was a big decision.

Chrys: Who do you work with these days? Who are your typical clients?

Kate: So typical clients range from... We still do content creators and bloggers. Those who have probably a really large following, they're getting a higher number of sessions. They're primarily ads or affiliate or sponsored posts monetized and they're really good with the whole content stream. And then we work with e-commerce owners who are either Etsy sellers, Shopify sellers, they have their individual products or even TPT - teachers pay teachers sellers - so people who have small digital products.

We also work with a few corporate clients who are really looking to increase brand awareness, their content creation machines that can really get that out there. So what we started with, which was just bloggers, content creators has really evolved definitely just swing tremendously towards the e-Commerce because people who either create a digital product or physical product are realizing that their buyers are on Pinterest, but they just do not have the bandwidth to figure out how to market on Pinterest. So they're much more likely to outsource right away than try to figure it out first and then outsource.

Chrys: Is there a difference when you work with someone who is a blogger or a coach versus someone who's doing e-commerce?

Kate: Yeah, definitely. I will say that blogger are really looking primarily for how can they increase sessions over time, and somebody who is an eCommerce or physical digital product seller, they're looking for sessions that convert. So whereas the reporting for a blogger might be, "I want to see my sessions and my followers increase", the e-commerce owners saying, "I don't care how many, I want to see my conversion rate. So if you give me a thousand and a hundred are converting, I'm pretty happy with that. But if you give me 40,000 sessions and five are converting, I am not happy with that." So it's definitely a different mindset that we have to tap into.

And sellers are very focused on their product creation, whereas bloggers are very focused on content creation. So when you ask a seller to wrap their brains around potentially doing blog content to warm up their buyers, they're much more resistant. Whereas, the blog content works really well on Pinterest to warm them up to buy the product. So it is a little bit of coaching more on the e-Commerce side, but there's so much potential on Pinterest for e-Commerce business owners.

Chrys: Am I correct to say that you are probably like the largest Pinterest marketing agency right now?

Kate: I would say yes. There have been a few other people that we've talked to over the years who have gotten pretty close, but they have not had as many clients. One of the thing that's unique about us too that I should mention is we have organic management, where it's just the people who are creating their own content, we're putting that on Pinterest - that's our largest pillar of our business, but we have promoted pins, which is the paid advertising, that's a department, and then we have the podcast, membership, blog sides - we have the content side, so it's essentially now I'm running three different companies under one umbrella and that is unique.

A few people I found in the Facebook realm that could understand kind of the hats that I'm juggling, but I think that's been an element of what's been a little bit lonely about growing this business is because there's not really anybody I can go to to say, "Hey, your business is at 200 clients and all this membership, like what does that look like?" There's just not that person ahead of me so it feels at times like blazing a new trail.

Chrys: Since you feel like you're blazing a new trail, what are you doing to find the answers to the questions that you have?

Kate: Number one for me has always been coaching. I think I realized right off the bat that if I did not have a coach or somebody I could really ask questions to or had experience with other agency owners, then I felt like I was floundering, I didn't know what to do. I'll also say that when you're growing a company, so much of you personally and your insecurities and all these other things and you can get into the comparison trap. So having somebody who's a coach to really say all those things too, definitely helps for sure. So I would say that's number one, probably the best thing I've done in my business.

And then I read books. There's some that have been super helpful over the years for different aspects of growing a company. I'll listen to podcasts of people who might be at the 5 or 10 million range in revenue so that I can see what are they thinking about. But they have to be agency owners.

It's hard to compare somebody like Amy Porterfield - is a fantastic business owner. She's great, but her model is different than mine. So to take lessons from that doesn't really work to implement them into what I'm doing. So I really have to look at other people who are agency owners.

Chrys: As an agency owner, as a service provider, one of the things that really matters for us is just that monthly retainer, making sure they don't leave the agency. So what are you doing right now to retain all these customers and clients that are coming in every single month?

Kate: That's such a great question. So one of the things, I feel like that process is a refinement process over years. You get better at it over time. But one of the things I think we've realized is that retention rates go down if you don't get the perfect fit client in the door. You have to put up a lot of Gates in the beginning to have them jump through hoops so you can say, yes, you are the right fit. Now in the beginning when you're growing, you're kind of like, take everybody, right? You're learning from experiences.

But once you get down the line, you eventually can say, I want you to fill out this longer form on my site, then it can evaluate you perfect fit, potential fit, not a fit. And then if you're not a fit - to down sell you into something else. If you are the potential fit - to ask really, really good questions about expectations.

Because what we've realized is that regardless of growth, some people won't even look at those numbers. They look at what was in their head versus what they received. So you have to draw that out in the discovery call in the questions to say, what are you expecting? What have your experiences been? And look for red flags. If somebody has an expectation of, "I want to grow to a million followers and 2 million sessions a month", it's like, well that's awesome, the rest of us want that too but that's not practical. So let me explain to you what the practicality is and set your expectations before we start.

So I think that has been a hard lesson for us that we've learned over the years that we have wanted to get people in the door because it felt like let's get the income. But as an owner and as a CEO who's not an operations anymore, what I have realized is that downline that creates more trouble for my team. And so if we don't set up these gates, then we do affect our retention rate downline.

I would say the biggest thing that sometimes out of your control is when companies budgets shift. Even though they're super happy with everything and they just can't afford it anymore, that's okay. I can deal with that. But when people leave because they don't feel like the performance was good and we look at it and go, "we just killed it for your account", but they can't see it. I think that's what's disappointing when they never really had the faith in Pinterest to begin with. You can only do so much.

And there's some people that get through to, and you just didn't realize they're crazy. That's what we call it sometimes like, "Oh, they're crazy", and we didn't see that coming. So we're going to just let them ride off into the sunset and we're going to be okay with that.

Chrys: Well, that's like a lot of relationships, not just the work. You jump into a relationship and you're like, Oh that person is crazy. You didn't see that coming.

Kate: Blindsided completely.

Chrys: So you're saying that you no longer do the operations part of it, you're not the one actually doing the pinning and all that stuff. So what is your role these days?

Kate: My role is really CEO of the company to really look at a future vision, to look at our profitability. I have the structure of our team currently right now is an executive team of six and they're essentially department heads. They tell me what it is that they need from me because I'm not in their day-to-day. So I can guide them, I'll talk to them about team dynamics, how do we remain a really healthy company? And then I have a leadership team underneath that that works with my account specialists to really make sure that we have quality control, that we're keeping up with the vision of where we're going and that we're serving our clients well.

So it's very much for me looking at how do we create a sustainable company long term. It was hard, I'll say, to get out of the operations. I probably stepped away from it two years ago, so I did spend quite a bit of time in the accounts. Now I primarily spend only time in my account and then I work with my collective students to make sure that I'm staying up to speed with Pinterest because that also is important to me because I do teach and have the podcast, so I've figured out a way to on my team to have somebody run reports for me. "What's all the news that's happening in Pinterest? Bring that to me to where I can just see it once a week."

But to the operations side, I think we're learning that me doing sales calls is not the best anymore just because I tend to sell the dream and sometimes that gets us again into a position where the potential fit got through, we didn't set it up well. So we're currently training somebody who's a team lead to take sales calls and get me out of that. It's natural progression.

Chrys: Can you share of us an early success that you had that changed the trajectory of Simple Pin Media?

Kate: I would say the first one was when I worked with that influential person in the blogging space and I had a great experience with her and then she shared about me in her newsletter and that was kind of like the first boom, that was like, Oh, this, this resulted in just great success here. And then I would say from there it's been those series of things that have capitalized on our reputation. Just getting out there. We've never advertised for our services and never run an ad or anything like that. We've always just been on word of mouth.

And then speaking, I would say stepping into the speaking realm and doing that circuit also contributed to the next layer of success. And really looking at what are our goals, what are our measurables that we really want to hit? And just seeing what can play into that. So yeah, I feel like there's been little benchmarks along the way and sometimes those successes kind of correspond with failures and things that have gone wrong, but we've learned a lot from them.

Chrys: Can we dive into the failures? I think that's interesting to talk about as well. We know we've talked about the highs, now let's talk about the lows.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah, those are interesting. I will say probably some of the biggest things have been how I've handled clients or I haven't seen something and they've come back and they've been really frustrated and I felt just like, oh, I miss the mark. There's been certain things where I didn't listen to my team, like maybe there was a team member that was pretty toxic and they kept telling me like, this isn't working, this isn't working, and I kinda kept dragging my feet and saying, let's keep making it work and then all of a sudden it just explodes and it's like bad team morale, all of that.

Definitely in that case, I've learned to listen to my team if they are saying something's not working, we're done. I'll say too, the other thing has been comparing myself to somebody else's business. That has been probably the biggest struggle for me from years two to four probably because I saw people in the influencer space who are selling courses and I was comparing myself to their business.

And I had a business coach at the time tell me, you're comparing yourself to somebody else's success. Why would you do that? Because it's apples to oranges. Like they have a course model business, you have a services based business, you can't read their blog income report and see that they made a hundred grand off a course, but you're not looking to see that you're on a trajectory to make a hundred grand a month for clients, which outpaces their course launch.

So that I think has been probably the biggest thing that I've learned from over the years is that that creeps in very, very subtly. I've had to put gates around like who I follow on social media, the things that I read and learn from that kind of pit feeling that you have when you see that, and then take it and turn it into something else. But failure is one of the things I am so afraid of, and I challenged myself this summer to say, cause I don't set goals. That has been my thing for years to say "I'm not going to set goals because if I don't set goals, then I'm not going to be disappointed if I don't hit them". Well then you don't have anything to aim for.

So the summer was the first time I said I'm going to dream big into 5 or 10 years to become, our goal has always been to be the best, most knowledgeable Pinterest marketing and management company. And then to be so amazing that even Pinterest would want to buy us someday as an arm of their company. So if I'm gonna lean into that, I have to have that as a goal instead of kind of shoving that to the side. But it's a risk, but you've got to take it.

Chrys: I feel like the more you talk about how you want Pinterest to buy your company, your agency, as well the more you share about it, the chances of them actually listening and hearing that would actually materialize into an actual reality. "Oh look, there's an agency out there that's waiting for us to buy them".

Kate: Yeah, swoop us up. We've got lots of knowledge. I think that's just believing in not just yourself, but believing in the company that you've created. And sometimes they do feel like two different things, but you are so intertwined with it.

Chrys: Now before we go on, today's show is sponsored by by Messenger Marketing agency, Chrys Media. We work with our clients to help them get more leads and increase engagement in sales with Facebook messenger marketing. Now, if you're interested to learn more about Facebook messenger marketing and how it can help your business, then go check out my free online training on how you can use this marketing channel. So go to hackyouronline business.com/messenger after today's show.

Kate, I know you're in Pinterest marketing, but have you heard about Facebook messenger marketing?

Kate: Oh yeah, I speak at Social Media Marketing World and that is a big topic all the time. It's not something that I am yet ready to incorporate into my business, but I will say that when I hear about it, I get this, you know, they call it rabbit trails. Like I want to go down the rabbit trail of Facebook messenger. It's so awesome.

Chrys: I would be interested to learn like see how Pinterest and Facebook Messenger marketing can go hand in hand because I think Pinterest has really just gotten so big with the IPO and everything to the point where there's so many cross usage of other social media marketing channels. And it'd be interesting to see like, okay, where's this going? Is there a way to use both marketing channels at the same time and the same strategy as well? Right? Who knows, you know?

Kate: Well I know you can put Pinterest into Facebook messenger and it'll populate pins for you. Or at least it used to. They haven't done a lot of cross pollination much cause you know it's a totally different user habits but very interesting to see how you can do it.

Chrys: Very interesting. Now I want to talk about your community because I think one of the things that I've noticed about you is that you've created for yourself a pretty big Facebook group. I think there's 18,000 people, and I didn't even know there's so many people interested in Pinterest marketing.

Kate: Totally. Yeah. The community has been interesting to cultivate over the years. So when I got started, there was a girl named Jill who had started this really secret Facebook group and it was that Facebook group and it was only 200 of us in there, maybe. We were really nitty gritty getting into all the details of Pinterest. And she came to me probably a year later and she said, "I want to be out of the Pinterest game, I'm not into it, I'm going to go do real estate. Do you want this group from me? I'll make you the owner." And I was like, sure, let's do it.

And so that took a little bit of transition trying to transition the people in the group to kind of see me as a leader. But then what we realized was that if we got people in the Facebook group, it would serve two purposes. One, it would bring exposure, but two, it could be a market research place where we could look for content, we could look for ideas and we would be alerted first because somebody would bring it to the group if something wasn't working on Pinterest.

It's a little bit self-serving for us, right? Because if we could bring the community to us, we will learn about everything right away. And then it started to grow and we realized we needed to create a culture in there. That was one I'm not complaining - was one of business growth, we needed to have the business mindset. Probably between the eight thousand ten thousand range was kind of the hardest time to make that work because we would have to do a lot of heavy moderating, people would come in.

Somebody gave me the best advice, they said "be heavy handed with delete and ban, and don't feel bad about it because somebody who starts a conversation to try to stir up drama is going to do it again and again". And so we've been very heavy handed with that and Melody is my moderator in there, she's fantastic.

The other great part was it allowed us to answer the Facebook questions with our podcast or blog posts, so we were strategic in doing that. If we saw a question come up over and over again, we would end up just putting that in there.

And so now it's 18,000, I'm no longer really in there, I'm now more in our paid area, the collective, but such a great group for people who are just starting out and they don't know really how to do it or to alert you if things that are not working on Pinterest, but yeah, almost 20,000 like mind blowing to me that that many people.

Chrys: So you have a paid group called the collective. Is that a membership or is that a course?

Kate: Yeah, it's a membership. We did have courses for a long time. In fact, I was talking about the comparison, that was my two to four year range where I felt like I needed to create courses because that's what everybody else was doing. One of the things we realized was that we couldn't get in it with them, we couldn't tackle things, and what I saw with the course model was that people felt like they were being fire-hosed with information. And so we wanted to create something that was more of a drip and then we would help them implement.

So we just launched it in May and we closed all of our other courses, which felt to me like just a lead weight being lifted from me and now we just have the Simple Pin Collective, which this month we talked about all about Pinterest images, how to do video pins, getting feedback, dialling it in instead of going, okay, we're going to talk about strategy and keywords and analytics and images.

It's like, nope, just in these four weeks, that's all we're going to talk about. So far it's been a great group, it's our beta group to get feedback. So pretty much this beta group gets to tell us, what do you want me to record on? And that's what we record on.

Chrys: To be honest, it sounds smart because in the social media marketing space, especially with all these different marketing channels, it's constantly changing. And when you have a course and then the next thing... like you were just telling me a Pinterest just made a huge change. And if you have a course, my God, what happens with the content, right? So I feel like with Pinterest marketing, Facebook marketing, Instagram marketing, it's always changing so much and a membership is such a brilliant idea.

Kate: Yeah, it was one of those things too that I think I resisted for a while because I didn't know how much time it would take for me and what the setup would look like. Sometimes we try something new that tech can be overwhelming and I realized there's people there who love the tech that I can just pay them to do it and it won't take up a ton of my time because I do want to do content creation, and I also think people want somebody to walk with them.

They want somebody to ask questions to, and a membership model is like the recurring client revenue model, right? So instead of chasing this launch model of constantly doing it, well now we have this consistent income coming in instead of me having to be in launch mode three times a year, which is really exhausting.

Chrys: I hate this whole launch model that people have - every three months you launch one time and then you go crazy and then you rest and then you launch and you go crazy and you rest.

Kate: Yes, it's exhausting.

Chrys: You have a podcast on Pinterest as well. Has the podcast been a source of clients for you?

Kate: Yeah, it actually has. We get a lot of people who fill out our form and they'll say that "we heard you on the Simple Pin podcast". I think what that does for people is it shows our expertise and it shows that we're able to help the people who can't hire us.

When people hear your voice, there's much greater connection than if they were reading something. They get the why behind it or they'll be listening to it for probably a year, they'll do everything and they'll get it up to speed and they aspire to hire us. So that's really their goal.

As they say, "I want to make this work, I want to get to this point, and then I just want to hire Simple Pin Media". So that was something we didn't anticipate what happened from the podcast, but it's a great product ladder.

Chrys: When you first started the podcast, did you think it was going to be just this avenue of building authority on Pinterest marketing or did you think that, you know what, I'm going in to get clients out of this.

Kate: You know what, I'll say that at this time, so there was another woman who used to do a Pinterest podcast and she had just stepped away. And I was talking with my business coach about doing the podcast, he was like, now's your time, do it, because people are going to be looking for this.

And so I think what I really wanted to do initially was help those DIY-ers figure out how to break it down into simple steps to where then, yes, they could hire us later down the line, but they definitely were not our clients. They were a different sector of the audience that existed in the Facebook group that existed in the realm of, I want to do it myself.

And so serving them has been different than serving the clients like the e-Commerce piece who they might never listen to the podcast and they don't want to know anything about Pinterest. They're just like do it for me.

The grow pillar is what we call them for the Facebook group, the collective and the podcast - they want to take off, and some of the start pillar - at the beginning people, we have a process to help them because there's so much information out there on Pinterest. I don't want them to have search all over YouTube and do all of this. I just want to get them up and running fast so we can get them into the grow section.

Chrys: How are you personally using Pinterest right now to market your podcast episodes and even just your agency itself?

Kate: Yeah, so we don't do a whole lot of marketing of the agency side, but we definitely do a lot of marketing of the podcasts and the blog posts. So we have our separate boards that we've got titled with Pinterest marketing, Simple Pin podcast, Simple Pin. So we definitely have that content in rotation. And then if we see a piece of content... So Google and Pinterest are my top two refers for site traffic.

Google kind of blows Pinterest out of the water, but Pinterest is that top one there that then we like to get all the people who are interested in any type of how-to to get over there, change up images. So if images, maybe we've created a post... Well here's a good example.

We did a trends podcast throughout the year, September trends. What we realized is that trends actually closely aligns with fashion when you search it on Pinterest. So we had to switch it up to say content ideas. We might create a new post or a new image because Pinterest is heavy on visual recognition and so you can see more pins like this when you create images that are very similar.

Having content ideas will help Pinterest visually recognize what the content is about. But I love Pinterest for marketing because it is like Google. We don't put a lot of effort into Facebook business page. Instagram - I'm over there just because it's kind of fun, but I don't expect a lot of traffic from it at all.

Chrys: I don't want to leave this episode without you sharing some Pinterest marketing tips. I mean, that's why I have you on. So when we're thinking about using Pinterest for driving traffic to our site, where should we start with our strategy?

Kate: I would say number one it's your mindset. So you have to know that Pinterest is a search and discovery network. That's number one. It's not going to be like Instagram, it's not going to be like Facebook. Number two, it's going to take awhile. So investing in putting your pins on the platform in the right boards is going to take a good six months to see any type of movement, which is hard cause on Instagram you get a like or a comment, some types of engagement.

Pinterest doesn't have those same engagement signals, so you have to have your mindset ready first and then looking at your profile and going, "is my profile, my boards, my picture, my description, does it describe what I do? Would it a stranger off the street, hop on it and know, oh, this is a seller of shower curtains. Great. Okay. We can look through the shower curtains". Having board names that are very descriptive, it's not cutesy.

Going back to that search and discovery that your keywords and even what's in your images are really gonna drive the search traffic and the best part, 97% of searches on Pinterest are unbranded, which means you can compete with the Target, Home Depot. Everybody's at the table and that's again what I love about Pinterest is because you're not competing like on Instagram, you might be competing with an influencer.

Nobody cares about influencers on Pinterest, nobody cares about followers. It's really just, "how do I create great content that people are going to click on to go to my site?" And again, that's another beautiful part about Pinterest is that the native users are trained to move off the site. Whereas you have something like Facebook or Instagram wants to keep them inside the platform for as long as they can.

Ads on Pinterest are great right now, they're great buy, they are perfect for advertising. There's a lot of great opportunity there that maybe people who have exhausted Facebook ads can put some dollars over in Pinterest and try to rank for certain keywords to try to get more traffic.

And even retargeting campaigns. I will say they are a couple of years behind Facebook, so if you are great at Facebook ads, you're going to go to Pinterest ads and be like, what era am I in? But I still think they're a great buy, something to invest in.

Chrys: Now before we end off this episode, I'll like you to share, what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur?

Kate: Oh, that's a good one. I would say the biggest lesson that I've learned over time is not to do it alone. You need people, you need other masterminds, you need a coach. This is all new as an entrepreneur in this journey. So you need to find those voices that you trust that will give you good feedback, and if you do end up creating a team, give that open door to your team that they can give you feedback.

They can tell you where you're wrong because if you're the only one in your head there's a chance you're going to steer it sometimes the wrong way. And there's been many decisions I've gone to make and people have said to me, "are you sure you want to do that? Because here's how I see this". And it's very eye opening to hear that from somebody else.

So I always tell people, get a coach, get a mastermind, figure out how you work best. I have personal masterminds but I'm not a paid mastermind person. I need a paid coach because I'm a one-to-one, I can't have too many voices, but figure out which one you are. Maybe you are a great mastermind person, but regardless, don't do it alone. Have a community of people.

Chrys: I absolutely agree with that. I have my own mastermind as well and they have been just a great source of just bouncing off ideas and just pointing out things that I didn't even realize that I wasn't seeing. Cause sometimes we're just so caught up in whatever... We think all of our ideas are amazing. And then you have people telling you, wait a minute, Chrys.

Kate: And they point out your habits too, like sometimes mine will point out, looks like a little bit of a squirrel here or it looks like the comparison trap. Having other people who can speak those things is really freeing.

Chrys: It totally is. All right guys, go check out simplepinmedia.com after today's show. You can also find Kate's podcast, the Simple Pin podcast on iTunes.

Thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Kate. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes, the links and everything that we just talked about today. I want to thank you so much, Kate, for coming on the show.

Kate: Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks For Listening, My Friend!

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  • Interview With Kate Ahl, Founder of Simple Pin Media & Pinterest Marketer
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