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Do you create online courses or thinking about creating online courses? On today’s episode, find out how to create online courses that people love and crave.

I interview XayLi Barclay, one of the top selling online course creators with Thinkific. Besides being one of the top selling online course creators with Thinkific, she is also a visual content creation coach for course creators and runs an academy called The Start Shoot Grow Video Academy.

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"Think about your branding, think about who you are. Think about who you are in-person. You're real person and you want to show up as a real person inside of your courses as well, because you're creating a relationship. At the end of that course, that person should be looking to see what next you have to offer that they can dive into."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • How XayLi ended up as one of Thinkific’s top course creator and one of their experts.
  • Why she ended up with a business teaching about creating video content
  • What she did (and still does!) to grow her audience and students
  • How to structure your online courses to create good craveable course content
  • XayLi's recommendations on course video lengths and video equipment
  • How to create the curriculum for your online course

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Full Transcript

Chrystabelle: On today's episode, I interview one of the top selling online course creators with Thinkific. So we were actually introduced for an online summit that she ran with Thinkific and I was one of the speakers. So besides being one of the top selling online course creators for Thinkific, she's also a visual content creation coach for course creators and she runs an Academy called the Start Shoot Grow Video Academy.

So here's my guest XayLi Barclay. Xayli, thank you so much for jumping on this episode with me today.

XayLi: Hi Chrys. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited about it.

Chrystabelle: When we first met before the online summit started, I was super impressed by how how humbled you were. You had no airs at all.

XayLi: You know what, I'm just the girl from the Caribbean who decided to just go for it.

Chrystabelle: That's right, you are from the Caribbean.

XayLi: Yeah, yes I am.

Chrystabelle: So for those of you guys who don't actually know XayLi, she's originally from Trinidad, but now you are a US citizen. Am I right?

XayLi: Yes, I am. So I currently live in Dallas, Texas.

Chrystabelle: That is so far from Trinidad in terms of culture, in terms of everything. So tell us more about that. You were originally from Trinidad and then you came over to the US. Tell us more about that story.

XayLi: Yeah. So I always knew that I wanted to come to the US from Trinidad. I was totally engulfed in the culture. I loved hip hop music and just the vibe of New York. And so I started traveling every summer because my mom lived here, so I lived with my grandparents and my aunt and uncle in Trinidad and my mom left obviously to create a better life for herself and for me here. Eventually I was able to join her, but what I did was I did my SATs back there and I got a scholarship to come to the US to go to college. That's where my journey really started. Living in the US.

Chrystabelle: And now of course you have started this whole business because you came to the US to do business management, I mean that's what you started. And now you're not doing business management at all, I mean kind of. I mean it's your own business, but you're not focused in business management. So after college, what did you do to get to where you are today?

XayLi: Well, so from just being a kid, I always knew I wanted to work for myself because my dad worked for himself. And it's crazy because my parents had me when they were young and my dad worked for himself, he had his own company. He was actually transitioning when I was a really young kid, probably three, four. And as I grew, probably maybe about seven, he eventually just was working for himself and he was probably, I want to say... 26 or 27, and so I had that example from the start.

I've always been surrounded by entrepreneurship, my family has always been into it. My grandmother own a store in Trinidad, it was a very nurturing thing, you know? And so as I grew, I just knew that that's what I wanted to do. I didn't know what I wanted to do but I knew I wanted to help people, which is a good start. But I knew I didn't want to help people in the way of being a nurse because when you're from the Caribbean, that's the thing that you think about. And I was like, no, I can't, I'm not anyone's nurse.

So now I get to help people, I still get to help people, but it's just so completely different. I feel like what really helped me was when I got to the US I became a babysitter in college and I was able to see what wealth really looks like because I was able to babysit for celebrities.

Chrystabelle: Celebrities like who? Like Britney Spears?

XayLi: No, not Britney. One of my clients told me the other day that I should mention who I worked for cause I told her, but I'm like, you know the craziest thing is celebrities don't want you to treat them like a celebrity. So I've always moved with that loyalty of not mentioning who they are, although I'm sure I can. Yeah, I don't really say but yes. So people who have been in movies and things like that.

So I've been able to see wealth from early and understand what it really takes to be wealthy because celebrities are really entrepreneurial as well. They have a management team and things like that, but they really are... Movies are their job then so that that job starts and ends. And so I was able to see the inner workings of that while taking care of their most prized possessions, which are their kids. I was able to learn so much, I was learning more working for these people than going to college, cause I was able to like learn real life lessons, learn what wealth accumulation looks like, what money really look like when you were able to just climb and achieve that.

And so for me, that was one of the things that I took into my business. There was no limit. So I'm encouraged because of those experiences to keep climbing. And so I climbed until... So I had a period I would like to insert where I work in corporate America. But it was because these people were like, oh my gosh, you are not supposed to be a babysitter, I have a friend that works in this company or that company.

And so I started in PR in New York City really early and I was able to get some of the best internships because of the people that I babysat for. And I eventually climbed into mortgage banking and realized that I did not like corporate at all. So I went back to trying to figure out who can I help? What can I do? And the craziest thing is I really started understanding like this world, the PR world, but these PR people, they get to help bloggers, right. Or share their products and blogger can talk about it. And this was like in 2008, 2009.

Chrystabelle: This was before blogging was a huge thing.

XayLi: Yes. And I was like, that is what I want to do. And so I got onto livejournal first, then I got onto WordPress and I got onto tumbler and I just became obsessed with social media because I was doing that for these companies that would scouring Twitter to find out what people are talking about specific products - JC Penny, Worcestershire sauce - I always say that wrong, I probably said it wrong just now as well - like all of these big companies. I was working on their social media accounts, polling what people were saying about them. And I'm like, I want to be the people that are being paid to talk about these companies, so I started blogging way back then. So that was one of the craziest things.

But when I started blogging, I started designing and selling my own clothing and jewelry, and it's crazy cause when I look back on my old blog posts, I can see where I was talking about my day, but also talking about the dress I had on and telling you head to the link down below to buy it. And I'm like, what the heck did I know about? It's just so funny. But all of these things have created the person that I am today and really created things that I can stand on solidly. So I was lucky to start very early in the game and transitioned into who I am today, just training courses where I really help other people. So it goes back to helping, right?

Chrystabelle: So you were blogging, you went from PR to blogging and now you teach people... Like you've got courses, right? But you teach people video stuff. Where's the connection? So tell us more about that.

XayLi: I was always a very visual person, right? So the thing was I would be on Facebook and at this time Facebook was only words. I would be on Facebook sharing pictures cause I wanted to see pictures. Like who wants to read words?

Chrystabelle: Copywriters!

XayLi: But you know, so I kind of was fueling what I wanted to really see, and so I jumped into pictures very early in the game, started taking my own pictures and then I decided, hey, I want to see video. Nobody's thinking about video. So this is probably in 2014 where nobody was focused on video content and I started creating videos and creating such attraction, but I was still doing beauty content, lifestyle content. But I started getting so much traction, I'm like, what if this was a main driver for a small business? And so I was like, I don't want to be any blog anymore, I'm tired of teaching people how to put an eyelash on. I want to really show people how they can use video in their small businesses so they can really gain traction and get people interested in what they're doing cause my conversions were so high.

I started teaching videos but I was really teaching it for beauty bloggers and people who wanted to gain traction around products that were pertaining to beauty or get more brand deals and things like that. But then I realized that my business was growing like crazy doing that. That's when I started teaching courses, and one day, Thinkific saw a video, I think this was in 2015. They saw a video of one of the inside of one of my courses and they reached out like, how the heck did you do this? Like who are you? What's going on here?

Chrystabelle: What do you mean by inside of one of your courses?

XayLi: So I was showing it on social media like I was launching, so I was showing what you would get when you get into the inside of the course. Thinkific saw that and what happened was, again, from my courses, I remember signing up for Thinkific and not seeing what I wanted my courses to look like. I didn't see any examples that were like, oh my gosh, this blew my mind. I just didn't see what I wanted to see and what people would want from a learning experience. So I created that and so I became one of their experts based on a video. You get what I'm saying? But it all comes back to helping.

Chrystabelle: That's incredible. So okay, so you decided like, you know what, I'm going to go teach people how to use videos in your business, right? And so you went from just beauty stuff to now let's talk about this. Let's focus down on this. How did you get your first few course students? What did you do? Did you like pull them in from your videos like, hey, you enjoyed my beauty videos, now go check out this course. What did you do to get those first few students?

XayLi: You know what? It was so crazy. I knew I had an audience, right? So it was not a huge audience. It's a really small concentrated audience, but everybody was obsessed with the quality of my video content. And so they were like, how are you doing this? What are you doing? What cameras are you using? What's your lighting like? What is this? And the craziest thing was that I was creating from tiny corner of my living room in Brooklyn. So it was a tiny space I just carved out a little spot for my video content. So I'm like, if I can create this quality of video in here, you can too.

Because of that, the people that were following me were interested in getting onto YouTube and showing their expertise or what they really love. They gravitated to me selling a course like, oh my gosh, she's going to break this down for us. I've also always been obsessed with just being yourself and being genuine. So for me it was a combination of just being who you really are in person bringing that person on camera with you. So you didn't have to be a perfect thought out robot on camera. You can really be yourself and that converts even better than anything else cause it's like an in-person connections. I started teaching from that perspective as well.

Chrystabelle: I look at your videos and I'm like wow, she's really good at it. I mean, of course now you've got this whole set up. Like you've got two computers, a bunch of lights and this camera, speakers, microphones... this Hollywood setup that you've got. And so you were saying that when you first started out, of course you didn't have any of those. What did you use? Your phone camera?

XayLi: Yeah. So I started off with my phone, definitely started off from my phone and a ring light. And then I got a DSLR and I started using that, and it's crazy because I still have the same camera today. It's only now that I'm willing to upgrade. I actually have a Hollywood set up and I don't use it. I use a window light. Sometimes I use that camera that I bought four years ago. Even though I've amassed like other cameras and other fancy little Osmo gadgets and vlogging cameras, I really just still always use that four year old camera and some light from the window. That's it.

Chrystabelle: And I think that's the lesson in there in itself, right? I feel like a lot of people when they get excited about creating video content and they go out there and buy their first DSLR, and they're like, oh wait, how do I use this thing?

XayLi: Exactly, and that creates an action.

Chrystabelle: And so they just stop. I still use my iPhone camera just to record all my YouTube videos. I use this cheap mic... I mean it's not that cheap, but it's not like a professional podcasting mic, you know what I mean? So you just got to get started, right? Like the equipment itself don't really matter. And do you think it's important when it comes to lighting and sound... how important are those things when you're creating course content?

XayLi: They are important but there's also affordable options that you can definitely use. You know what Chrys, I feel like what matters most is you having a map for your student experience and understanding what you want your student to get when they're done watching this video. I feel like that's the thing that comes first before anything else. I don't care if you're in the darkest room or you know... Those things can be improved later on.

But let's start with impacting people first and even like get in front of a window, that's enough light for you. As long as I can see you, you're not too grainy, get a little webcam, get a cheap lavalier mic and start off with that. And afterwards when you've gotten a lot of traction and you're completely killing it, then you can even hire someone to do the whole video setup thing. But really it's about you and what you have to say.

And I always say that because I also teach a program called Camfidence, which is having confidence on camera, but it's also creating a connection with yourself, the camera, and then you're able to attract your desired audience. That's such a huge component of this whole video thing.

Chrystabelle: I want to dive into that later cause I want to talk about your business story first. So can you share what you did that really worked in growing your business and just growing this empire they have right now and getting more students?

XayLi: You know what? I showed up, I showed up, I was really consistent, I committed. That's what I did. That was the difference. I committed to even before when I didn't know what the heck I was doing, I stopped calling my blog blogging and I started calling it work. And I feel that simple word change made a mind set change. So it turned into something that I was obsessed with doing, and even before I was completely full time.

I left mortgage banking and I went back to babysitting because I could work for four hours and make almost the same amount of money, cause I was really thinking about doing corporate because it was the cool thing to do. "Yeah. I work in this beautiful office in Manhattan" and girl... That's where you have to realize, wait, am I doing this for me or I'm doing this to benefit or please someone else. And so I was like, no, I'm going to leave all of this and go back to babysitting, and I was able to work for four hours babysitting. So that would mean that I would have my morning to do my own business.

I was so obsessed, I would write all of my blog posts even on my 20 minute ride to work, I would get my blog posts in every single day on the train in New York city. It was such a crazy ride. I wish I had the grind that I had then because I was blogging every day, I was creating content every day. I just really showed up consistently for a year until one day I told my boss I'm out and she was like, what are you sure? And I'm like, I can't because it became to a point where my craving for what I was doing became bigger than whatever I was doing in the evenings for that four hours.

And so I didn't want to do that to anyone and not give 100 because I was focused on something else. That's when I decided, okay, I'm going to dive into this full time.

Chrystabelle: What gave you so much focus that you were able to just churn out time and time again even though you're were doing something else? Did you have an idea in your mind that you wanted to achieve something, were you working towards a goal? What drove you?

XayLi: The people. I really wanted to help people. I really, really wanted to help people really understand that they can use visual content to stand out and really attract the people that they wanted to attract. And it's crazy because then my traction online started growing so much that I was just concerned about that. Like how can I help someone else do this or achieve this, and it was so scary. But just the fact that I was putting content out and getting responses from people, getting emails, getting people interested in what I was doing, that was the biggest thing for me.

Chrystabelle: Let's talk about getting that traction. So you were saying that you started off with a small list of people who knew who you were and of course now you've got this huge list of people who know who you are. So let's talk about traction. What were you doing consistently to get more traction?

XayLi: I was really honestly sticking to it. I would show up every day and I would engage with people. That's a huge thing for me. I mean sometimes it gets scary cause as I'm growing, cause I still consider myself a micro influencer, but my community, man like they rock with me and I rock with them.

I really spent time getting to know people. I'm always shooting over voice mails, I'm always in my DMS talking to like... I know so many people online that you would think that we've met in person and we've never even met. But that's just how I am. I really want to get to know people, get to know what they're thinking, what's stopping them from getting where they would like. I really spend time with my people and I feel like that's really what makes the difference.

Chrystabelle: Are you still very focused on YouTube marketing as one of your main way of getting new students into your course?

XayLi: I am. My main platforms are actually YouTube and Instagram. So those two platforms really served me well to the point where I'm like running around headless right now. But the thing is with many people, more than always likely want to work with me one to one. I'm like, no I can't right now, but I know it's also because of my personality. You know, it's a gift I would say, where I'm just really welcoming and warm. It could be because I'm from the Caribbean too. I don't know what it is.

Chrystabelle: Stereotype.

XayLi: Right? But yeah, so you know, that's definitely a thing, but yes, I really like focused on YouTube and also Instagram as well. I think one of my lessons this year was treating each platform as its own. I would really be busy trying to move my people from Instagram over to YouTube and YouTube or to Instagram.

And although like that is all well and good, I also want to nurture each platform because we have video access on each platform so I can upload to IGTV and I can upload YouTube so I can nurture my communities on each platform in the way that they would like to be served.

Chrystabelle: The word I keep hearing from you is focus, focus, focus, focus and consistency. I think that's your superpower, isn't it? Like there are so many course creators out there teaching about videos and creating content and the fact that you have built this audience for yourself and really grown a business, I think it's just down to the fact that you're so consistent and so focused in showing up. I think that's your superpower.

XayLi: Yeah, it really is. And I feel like because of that, people have gotten to know me. A lot of people feel like they know me really well from being with me online for so many years, from me showing up consistently for so many years. And it's crazy because sometimes you don't think that consistency pays off and then a huge brand is in your inbox, like "we have been watching you for so long". Oh my gosh. So it's like keep showing up.

A lot of people are just so focused on growing that they're not nurturing those people that are there right now. You've got to focus on those people and those people will talk to other people and it will grow organically. But nurture your people, nurture the people that are in front of you right now, really focus on those people. And for me there is nothing else for me to do, right? So that's my thing.

I don't have a plan B, I don't have anything to fall back on. This is it.

Chrystabelle: You could become a babysitter again. You could shoot beautiful videos for babies and be like, oh here's a whole package thing. I babysit your kids and now I shoot videos for your kids as well.

XayLi: You know what, one thing I was really amazing at was managing my time with whoever I was babysitting at the moment. Like I always came to work, I was different from other sitters. I would come to work with a plan of what we're going to do, what arts and crafts we're going to do, what time dinner would be, and so I would be really involved with the kid during that time. And I always think about creating a membership for babysitters, like this is what you can do so that you can definitely create a deeper relationship with your client who's their parent. Because I've always had really amazing experiences because I was always prepared.

Chrystabelle: My God, you are so prepared and I love that about you. You're so prepared whether it's about babysitting, with your business, you're dedicated. I mean, kudos to you. I don't know how you do it, but I really love this aspect about you. Before we go on, so I want to do a quick read.

So today's show is actually sponsored by my Messenger marketing agency media, Chrys Media. We work with our clients and get more leads and increase engagement and sales with Facebook messenger marketing. If you're interested to learn more about Facebook messenger marketing and how it can help your business and go check out my free online training at hackyouronlinebusiness.com/messenger after today's show.

XayLi, we were talking about this on your summit, right? I was sharing about Facebook messenger marketing and you said you were going to do it for your academy. Have you started doing it already?

XayLi: No, I have not. And trust me, you would know, but no, I have not just yet. So I'm re-working lots of foundational stuff. So as soon as I'm done with that, you would know because I would be in your inbox.

Chrystabelle: Oh, you'll be in my inbox. For those of you who are interested in learning about Facebook messenger marketing and how, like I was talking to XayLi about it, is the Think In Color Summit still available? Do you know?

XayLi: Yes, it is. It actually is.

Chrystabelle: Where can people get that? Where can people still go and check out the episode and learn more. If they're a course creator, they can learn about, not just from me, but from like... What was it? Was it like twenty speakers?

XayLi: Yeah, I think it was 16 speakers if I'm not mistaken. Definitely go to Thinkific.com to find out about it. Can we add a link to this episode so that they can access all of that?

Chrystabelle: Of course. So it's going to be in the show notes guys. You can just go to hackyouronlinebusiness.com, today's episode and then you can just find the show notes and all the links that can find all these amazing stuff.

All right XayLi, I am super excited to talk about this thing - which is creating good course content and you kind of gave us a little hint. So I want to talk about creating good course content, creating content that people would actually love consuming. So in your experience as a course creator, what have you found to be the top factors in creating good craveable course content?

XayLi: Yeah, I mean it's really about creating an experience for your students. I really believe in getting your people to obviously know, like, and trust you, but I also feel like with course content, you want to be present for your people. It's kind of like when you find a YouTube video and you're looking for a solution to a problem and so you find it and you find a tutorial where someone just shared a screen and you've got this solution and now you're gone. Right? I'm sure you've done that before. Like, Oh, this is a solution. Okay, bye.

But have you created a relationship? Have you shown your face, or had you really engaged with that person? They might've been like, oh, who is this and what more can I learn from them? It's the difference with how you present yourself. I mean, listen, I'm an advocate for getting it done and getting it out there, but you also at some point want to create a person, a customer that is returning and looking at you as the authority in whatever it is that you're teaching.

And so I like to say, just make sure that you include components like showing your face on camera because I like to think about it like someone coming into a store or walking into a store and they walked in and nobody's greeted them. Nobody said hello, nobody is asking them, are you finding everything? Those things create a difference, so why wouldn't you want to create that experience inside of your online course?

So don't be just a solution. Think about a relation so that people are coming back to you and looking to you for more information on whatever that might be. And also think about your student's experience with you. Just make that a really engaging one.

Make sure you map out where you want them to start and how you want them to feel or what you want them to be able to do by the end of the course itself, and then break that down, that formula down into your modules as well.

Chrystabelle: I love how you talked about the engagement part because I think a lot of people when they create courses, they are so focused on... All right, let's just turn out the curriculum. What am I'm going to talk about? And they're just like, okay, now I'm going to sell it. And then someone buys it and okay, it's done. The transaction is done. I don't even think about the engagement part. I don't think about how can I increase the completion rate. I love that you actually talked about the engagement part of it.

XayLi: Yes, yes, yes. I think you know that's the thing like you want someone that is... Like when we think about a funnel, we want to think about someone that's getting something and they're willing to dive deeper and deeper. I think a lot of times we don't think about the lifespan of a customer because online things are so one and done. What's the bigger picture for your course?

For me, that's why I created the Start Shoot Grow Academy. So I thought about it in sections of: start, shoot and grow, because that's my whole person's journey. Now obviously there are components to each part of that equation, but I know what's in each part of that equation and I want to make sure that before they join that Academy, they understand what they're getting into through my Camfidence program.

I know each stage or step of my ideal customer and I feel like people don't think about that. They just think about the instant let me make $5,000 this month, it's not intentional like when you're creating for the long game. I've seen so many people fall off, I feel like it's because they didn't plan for that long game.

Chrystabelle: What are you doing for your own academy to get this engagement and build this engagement with your students?

XayLi: I love really just interacting with them. Like I said before, it's the same thing that I do online. You just get more of me within the academy. So obviously you're getting me inside of my courses, like someone can't really steal my courses because I'm all over them. It's me creating a deeper relationship with my students, doing Q&A's or office hours and things like that.

So you have your people moving and it's not only about keeping them in that academy, like, giving them the option to mastermind with you. Because you're working on yourself every day and you're masterminding, so why not pull people that are learning from you up with you?

Chrystabelle: Oh, that's nice. Do you have a Facebook group for them, like for your students? Like a private Facebook group?

XayLi: Yes I do. But we'll be moving over to something even more amazing pretty soon.

Chrystabelle: Is it called Membermouse or something like that?

XayLi: No. One of my favorite platforms, I'm sure you hear about it, but they are releasing a community aspect. So that's [inaudible]

Chrystabelle: That is so needed. That is so needed, isn't it?

XayLi: Yes, it is. It's definitely needed. So I'm really excited about having my people in one space so that we're not consumed with the distraction of what Facebook can be.

Chrystabelle: We talked about what is needed - what are the main top factors in creating a good course of credible content. What are some mistakes you've seen people make with their course content? Because I've taken some courses and they are not so good.

XayLi: That is the thing you always got to remember - we don't buy from businesses. We really buy from people. So are you putting your heart and soul into what you're creating? How much of you are we getting? People are the course content because they're interested in you. Obviously you're providing a solution, but we have so many solutions online, so there's a reason why someone is going to come to you specifically for that content.

So put your back into it, put your flavor into it. You know, like if we have a specific experience with you, let's say on a live video, how can we translate that experience into your course? Because this is a brand that you're creating. It's a product that is a derivative of your brand, so put yourself into it. That's one of the things that I feel like we are really missing.

So think about your branding, think about who you are, think about who you are in person. You're a real person and you want to show up as a real person inside of your courses as well, because you're creating a relationship at the end of that course. That person should be looking to see what next you have to offer that they can dive into.

Chrystabelle: Wow. I just love that. I just love that thought of like how can we get them to go to the next step and not just like, okay, you've taken my course and done, the transaction is over. What I'm interested to know as well is how do you decide what content to include in a course? How do you plan out the curriculum?

XayLi: When you think about courses, you think about the how, like you can sell so many different things in courses. You can sell templates, you can sell processes, you can sell systems, I've done all of those. I've sold my process for creating video content. I sold my process for planning your video content and executing it. I love creating tools as well. So really incorporating things like that into your courses definitely do make a difference.

But just remembering also like we're looking for how, because all of your content online is so messy, like how can you really get a full solid process of that in one place? So that's what I like to think about when I'm thinking about of course... Like what's the step by step that's going to get me an end result when I'm done with that?

Chrystabelle: Is there like a a good amount of time, like a minimum number of classes or videos that you should include in a course or like a maximum number of sessions? Anything way more than that it's like way too much to learn.

XayLi: Well I would really like to say that really depends on what you're teaching or what your content is based on, but one thing that I really do like to have my people keep in mind is that you don't want to go too long with your video content. I have worked with people who have had an hour long module and I ask them all the time, would you sit through this? No. Your answer is no, so why are you doing this to your people?

Chrystabelle: I cannot sit down for an hour. Oh my gosh, 30 minutes is the max.

XayLi: Exactly. So keep your videos... I would say 5 to 8 minutes, 10 minutes, but do not keep going on and on and on. You have to remember that we have the attention span of probably a seventh or eighth grader. So as soon as things start getting too crazy, they will log out and then that affects your course completion rate, which affects your income because nobody is talking about what they've accomplished with your course.

Chrystabelle: So what happens if someone has a really in depth topic to cover, right? For a course like accounting 101, astrology one-on-one, those things, you cannot just have it in like 5 to 8 minutes videos. So the course is going to go on forever and ever. What tips do you have for someone who's creating a course about one of those topics where it's really comprehensive?

XayLi: I'll definitely break it down. You can have astrology 101 but you can have segments of that in other courses and it's always good for your people to have another place to go as they keep leveling up. I like to think about it as a bigger picture, a bigger process like breaking that down in different parts of the whole equation.

As I mentioned before, I have Camfidence, which is the course that is a prerequisite to my Start, Shoot, Grow Video Academy. So I could have just made a whole course called Videos For Business or Epic Videos For Business that included all of that, but then you would get lost in how to take an into video and break that up into pieces of content for each social media platform. If you are just learning to create videos, you're not ready to do that just yet.

Think about your person's process. Where are they coming in and where are you? Because that's the limit to what you can teach where you are right now, what's working for you. So think about mapping that entire journey out.

For me, I had to get confident on camera first with my phone, then I had to learn my equipment, then I had to start upgrading, then I had to really start making sure that I'm connecting my content to my business goals so it was stages and so I had all of those stages mapped out so that I know exactly where someone is.

I even have quizzes so that they can figure out exactly where they are in the whole process and they can start working in that specific place. But obviously I would advise them to go cover the prerequisite, but it is a thing that is like over and over, like make sure that you dig deep into that person's journey.

Chrystabelle: Now before we end off this episode, I'll like you to share your final thoughts on how we can actually market our courses on YouTube and Instagram because those are the two channels that you're really great at and I'd love to just get your final thoughts on that.

XayLi: I like to think about it as really positioning myself as the solution to that person's problem, especially for YouTube. I like to think about what is it that they're searching for? What is it that they're looking for this that's pertaining to this course content, even if it's how to get confident on camera and they find me or even if it's how to set up video for your courses.

So make sure that you're also creating niche content for your specific people. Because if I create a larger video about just getting confident on camera, that's different from creating a video about being confident while creating your course videos. You're positioning yourself as the solution to that person's problem by creating social content but also creating content that is engaging and that is really relevant to who you're creating for the type of person you're creating for.

And one thing that I always like to say because this helps me to find a lot of people, if your industry is saturated, think outside of the box. I love covering, let's say a program that I know people are going to use.

For example, you're going to look for webinars at some point in your course creation journey, right? You're going to want to implement some kind of funnel or something. And then if you find me reviewing that webinar program and leading you in the right direction as to what I think would really work for your business, then I automatically become an authority or an expert because you're finding this person on YouTube talking about what they're doing every day with webinars.

And so you're like, oh wow, who is this person? And then you hear me saying in the video, hey, this is who I am and this is how I can help you. And you're like, oh my gosh, this happens to me all the time. So don't sleep on reviewing brands or thinking about what your person is. Become obsessed with your person. Period. Point blank.

Chrystabelle: Be obsessed. I think the one thing that we've learned from XayLi today. Be obsessed, be focused, dedicated. Just be consistent. All right guys, you've got to go check out XayLiBarclay.com after today's show. You can find out more about XayLi's Start Shoot Grow Video Academy at XayLiBarclay.com.

So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and XayLi. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes, the links and everything that we just talked about today.

Thank you so much XayLi, I really appreciate you taking time to come on the show.

XayLi: Thank you Chrys. Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks For Listening, My Friend!

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