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EPISODE 083: MASTER YOUR SALES CALLS WITH JENNY SHIH

Do you get scared or nervous when it comes to closing the sale on a sales call? Many online business owners are afraid of sales calls, and on today's episode, we talk about how to master the sales call.

My guest Jenny Shih is a business coach who has taught more than 35,000 women business owners how to earn a full-time income working 30 hours per week or less as online, service-based entrepreneurs.

You’ll hear about how she has grown and scaled her coaching business, and she’ll also share her strategies on mastering sales consults and follow ups to convert prospects into paying clients.

Don't forget to subscribe to the show and leave a review on iTunes. It greatly helps the show with Apple's algorithm!

"A lot of people have this skewed version of selling, which is really common and I used to have this too. That it's our job to convince people to spend money with us. And this instantly put this pressure on us to do something that is impossible. We cannot convince any other human being to do something that they don't already want to do."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • The story behind how Jenny went from being an Engineering Project Manager at Hewlett-Packard to becoming a business coach
  • The pros and cons of group coaching vs. working with one-on-one clients
  • Why Jenny recommends starting out with one-on-one clients first
  • The importance of being of value in communities and with your audience
  • The biggest mistake business owners make BEFORE a sales call
  • How to frame your sales call and ask the right questions
  • Say this to overcome the biggest sales objections
  • The hidden meaning behind a "I'll get back to you" reply and how to overcome this objection
  • The best way to follow up with a prospect after a sales call

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Full Transcript

Chrystabelle: On today's episode, my guest is a business coach who has taught more than 35,000 women business owners, how to earn a full time income working 30 hours per week or less as online service based entrepreneurs.

You'll also hear about how she has grown and scaled her coaching business and she'll also share her strategies on mastering sales consults and follow-ups to convert prospects into paying clients. So here's my guest, Jenny Shih. 

Jenny, thank you so much for jumping on this episode.

Jenny: Oh, thank you for having me. I always am happy to talk business and serve however I can, wherever I go.

Chrystabelle: Awesome. So Jenny, what most people don't realize is that before you were a business coach, you were actually an engineering project manager at Hewlett Packard.

Jenny: Yes, I did. I started out as an engineer and then an engineering manager. So yeah.

Chrystabelle: So here's the big question, right? How did you end up making this huge career change and becoming a business coach?

Jenny: Yeah, it's a great question because it wasn't a direct path. It wasn't like I'm an engineering manager and now I would love to be a business coach because I didn't know anything about business. But what happened was I was working as an engineer and an engineering manager just because that was the job I got out of college and then I got promoted into management and it was better.

But really my heart wasn't in it. I wasn't super excited to go to work. I didn't love creating the next generation of printers. Like it's fine, but it just didn't light me up. And when I turned 29, I remember thinking "next year I would be 30 and if I'm not careful, I'll be 65 I'll retire from this company and maybe I'll have achieved vice president". But if that's all I did with my life and my career, I will be very disappointed in myself. That's not knocking that career path for other people. It just wasn't the right one for me and I could feel in my heart.

So I started a lot of soul searching. I read a lot of books. I hired a career coach and started to figure out what do I want to do instead. I thought one day I would just know, but I definitely didn't just know. It took some looking. So I eventually stumbled upon, I think I'm going to be a life coach for women just like me who feel like they're stuck in this place that they ended up just because of whatever the life life brought them beforehand, but their heart isn't in it and they want to do something more meaningful.

So that's what I did. I quit my job cold turkey, I started a life coaching business and I started helping women figure out what they wanted to do and to bring in a little extra money. I also started working as a virtual assistant for more experienced business owners and about six months after it, maybe six or nine months after doing that, I realized I liked my virtual assistant clients. Maybe about a year... Way more than l liked my career coaching clients. And I thought, oh, like I started the wrong business.

And so I fired my career coaching clients, I closed my career coaching business and I said, I need to start from scratch. And this VA work is on the right track. I don't want to be a VA forever but it's on the right track. So I hired another coach and I started eventually jennyshih.com on March 1st, 2011 as a virtual assistant, project management and a coach to make your ideas happen because I knew project management, I knew systems, I knew how to get things done and I wanted to help other people do it as well as do it for them so I can help you do it or I can do it for you. It was really my approach.

Within about six months, I built my email list about a thousand subscribers and I had a ton of traction. I was excited to talk about my business, I loved the clients I was working with, I could see the growth continue and people started asking me, how are you getting clients? How are you growing your business? How are you doing this, because I'm still struggling?

And I started teaching a little bit of business here and there and eventually I stopped doing VA work and helping people implement systems and no more product management, and I started coaching people on how to build their online service based business get clients online and do this in a way that you love with something you're passionate about. And that's what I've been doing since then.

Chrystabelle: What a story. And so when you decided to leave your corporate career and start this life coaching back then, were you nervous? Were you anxious because now you were like, I'm going out to be an entrepreneur, I don't have that monthly paycheck that's coming in? I'm curious to know, were you hesitant?

Jenny: Yeah, I was terrified and excited. I was extremely naive, I honestly believed all the hype that it was going to be easy, that tell people you're a coach and you'll change their life and they will hire you. And so I thought, all right, I saved up a year's worth of living expenses. My husband and I cut our household budget in half and I was going to go for it. And it was not easy and it was scary and money was not coming in and clients were not hiring me.

And I'm a really risk averse person, I don't just make these hasty decisions like that. But what was so great about it was it really put a fire under my rear because I didn't want to go back to my job. And not only because I didn't want to be in that job, but because I would be really embarrassed to go back and say, I kinda didn't make it work, cause I left a little bit like, yeah, I'm going to do this thing, see you later! I mean it wasn't rude or mean or anything like that, but I left with some of this like pep in my step and I wasn't going to go back and it helped to do that.

But it was scary and it was hard and it was a lot more challenging than I ever thought it would be. I don't regret it, It was on the best decisions I've ever made. But yeah, far from easy.

Chrystabelle: So when you decide to become a business coach and you realize that, you know what, I really enjoyed this part about coaching, but business strategies and all that. You didn't come from a background where you actually studied business and business management all that stuff.

What did you do back down to actually improve your strategies on business knowledge and marketing strategies, and email marketing, and all that stuff? Because now you're going to be teaching those stuff to your clients.

Jenny: Yeah, well I believe in teaching only what you know and not teaching what you don't know. So I didn't start teaching business strategy until I learned business strategy. So when I launched jennyshih.com, I was just doing virtual assistant work. So helping people [inaudible] and updating their website, and I was doing project management and I was doing how-to things like you want to create an opt in offer, you need to figure out a title, create the content on your website, here's how to do that in MailChimp.

So I was only teaching things that I knew. It wasn't until I started seeing how to consistently bring clients in, master growing my email list, communicating with people. It wasn't until I learned something and mastered it that I taught it. I generally biased towards mastering something a whole lot more than most people before they teach it. And there's nothing wrong.

There's this one woman I follow online and she tends to learn something and share it right away, and that's very much her personality and I like to build my own experience and feel like I can sell and answer questions. And so for me it was, I would teach things after I felt like I really understood how they worked so I could effectively ensure that my clients are implementing it well.

Chrystabelle: I'm looking at your website right now and I see that you have a make it work online program, which is a 15 week coaching intensive program as well as a nine month mastermind program. So tell us more about how you actually help your clients through these programs.

Jenny: Yeah, so make it work online is our main flagship program. Our 2020 program will be the 10th time that we've offered make it work online - and it helps primarily women, but not exclusively so - who have online service based businesses. So they've got a website, they serve some clients, they know what they're doing, but they can't know what they're doing with their service, but they can't seem to get the clients coming in the door consistently, they can't generate the income they want to replace or to quit their full time job.

And so we help them do, we help them figure out what their messaging needs to be, exactly what their offers should be, how to position those offers, how to write the copy for those offers. Then how to get the word out about what they do, how to talk about their services so that people say yes, and help them to create consistent income, replace their full time job income in their online business.

Chrystabelle: You started out one-to-one coaching, right? That's how most coaches start out, and you were doing one to one coaching and now you offer it as group coaching program. So what I'm curious to know is why did you decide to transition from one to one coaching? Cause I see that you don't do that anymore.

Jenny: Yeah, I'm really glad you're asking this question because a lot of times people will say, Jenny, you teach people to do, to build a one on one service based business, but you no longer have a one on one service based business model. Isn't there a disconnect? And I love that you brought up because it gives me the opportunity to address it extremely directly. So the very first thing is I built my one-on-one business up to a multi six figure business, working less than 30 hours a week serving clients.

And what happened was I reached this point where I could almost predict what my clients were going to ask before we even got on the phone. I knew them inside and out so well that I knew how every single conversation was going to go, not to the word, but pretty much what was going to happen in each with each client. And it got to the point where it was time for me to evolve and grow and to no longer stay in this very limited way, but to expand what I have to other people.

And I believe the fastest, easiest way to make a really great income without working crazy hours, courses and products and membership sites are lovely, but to get to a point where you can generate a six figure income, it's not going to happen overnight. It's likely not going to happen in a year. It's going to take a ton of work up front, a ton of investment, and a lot of the people who go down that path don't really ever make it work. I'm also looking to continue to grow and evolve myself as a business owner and serve more people.

It became what I got to the point where I could predict what my clients were going to say before I got on the phone. It no longer made sense for me to just work with one on one clients because now I had so much insight and insight or knowledge about what was going on in my client's heads that I could start to put this into a group program.

So the very first version of make it work online wasn't this big PLF style launch to 100,000 people would kind of get a hundred people in the program. It was one email, one sales page and I filled 12 spots. And I said I want to just see if I can teach this to a group as well as I think I can and get the same results that I was getting my one on one clients.

And actually found with some unique ways that we structured to make it work online program, and that started with that very first one that clients were getting better results in this particular style of group format than they were with one-on-one work. And I thought, okay, I'm onto something.

Chrystabelle: Why do you think you're getting better results in a good coaching program as compared to just a one on one? Cause I would think that one on one is better.

Jenny: Right? That's what you would think. But what happens is there's a handful of things that happens in a group that can't happen one-on-one. One is they see that other people are struggling with the same things they are. So if they're having some mindset issues, if they're finding copy difficult - instead of it being, there's something wrong with me, oh, this is a common challenge among business owners at my level. So that's the first one.

The second one is when I coach one client who asks me a question about copywriting, another client listening to that coaching conversation says, oh, I hadn't even thought about that question. So not only did they get an answer, they get an answer to something they didn't even know they need it. So they get so much more benefit to the group coaching experience in terms of how we run it and make it work online. They then amplify their learning.

We also do this special thing with power groups, they are like accountability groups on steroids and a thousand times better. They're not accountability groups. Nobody does like we do so it's hard to explain, but it creates this opportunity to learn from everybody else in your group and take action in a way that never happens when you're working one on one. And so there's this whole dynamic.

The last thing, at least for now that I'll say with the group and the way we have it structured, is people are sucked into the energy in a good way of other people taking action. They see somebody doing the Facebook live for the first time and they say, okay, if she did it, I can do it too. It's all these things that happen in these groups, the way we structured them, that wouldn't happen one on one because it was just me and the client.

Chrystabelle: Right. And I would also think that having a group program, I mean for your business, right? One-On-One, you're limited to a number of clients you can serve every single day. With a group program, you can scale up your business so much faster. I'm just wondering, are there any challenges to running a group program, the coaching program, as compared to a one on one?

Jenny: Oh heck yeah. And this is what I tell people through with one on one because one-on-one is so easy. It's you with one client, the logistics are easier, there's no administrative overhead. If there's any hiccups, you just work with that one client. Once you enter into a group scenario, the logistics and the challenges and the problems multiply significantly. It's not just like double the problem.

It's when I went from one of my clients to now we serve hundreds of clients in our make it work online program, like it's a hundred times harder because of the number of logistics and number of people and the size of the launch and all the back-end stuff.

So people often think it's better to do groups, but I'll tell you it's far more profitable to build a six and multi six figure one-on-one business than it is to then do that same business model with groups. Overhead is so much higher when you move to groups. I'm not saying not to do it, but yeah, it's not this holy grail. A lot of people think it is, but for me it's the just the next evolution of myself as a business owner. Because my goal isn't to just be famous and get rich. Actually neither of those things motivated me at all. My motivator is to grow myself as a business owner.

And part of doing that as growing a team and growing my marketing and stretching my forecasting skills just to name a few things. And so that's what's motivating me to move in this direction to serve more people and to grow myself and not just because it looks like it brings in more money, and in any ways, my business before I was doing groups was so much easier.

Chrystabelle: Can you share what what you did that really worked in growing your business and helping you to get more clients?

Jenny: Absolutely. I'm happy to share this and the other thing that gets me really excited about sharing this is this is one of the biggest strategies I used in 2011, 2012 to grow my business and this strategy still works today. One of the things that I am as a human, but also who I am as a business owner, is this idea of classic, timeless strategy. So I am not a trendy person, I am not somebody who follows hot today, gone tomorrow trends. That's fine for people who are that, that is not me at all.

So I love choosing core business building philosophies that work and stand the test of time. So it's not like, Instagram TV is really hot today, but if you master it now, in two years it'll be something else and it'll just be this waste of time. It's more a strategic approach to everything we do in my business that really makes a difference. So the number one, not the only, but the number one thing that I use to build my business and still recommend to clients today is what I call be of service, or set another way, show up where your clients are and just to be an awesome, helpful person.

Give before you get, ask how you can help people serve them when they're not even asking. Relate to them as human beings. People notice because in the online space right now, so many people are pitching and making it about them and want to grab attention. When somebody shows up genuinely to serve their fellow humans, that actually creates a lot of attention. Yeah. It's just this magical way.

So whether that's in Facebook groups and LinkedIn groups, finding ways to do it on Instagram, going to local networking events, offering for you workshops, going on Quora or Reddit or wherever your people are, show up and be awesome people really notice.

Chrystabelle: Can you share a defining moment that accelerated your business growth?

Jenny: I would say it was when I switched from my original life coaching business to starting this business that was aligned with who I really was. That alignment piece changed everything. I mean, I hit the ground running. I was excited to talk about what he did. Everything changed. You know, I see a lot of people online say, well, you know, so-and-so says I should, and I was like, I don't care what someone's else says. What do you want? Like what lights a fire in your belly?

It's going to make you do the hard things you have to do in business in order to be successful. Pick the thing that's going to excite you and feels really true to you, not just what looks good or somebody else thinks it's a good idea. So that initial readjustment into jennyshih.com is what was the first real transformative moment.

Chrystabelle: So what was the second and the third?

Jenny: So I would say the second thing was investing in Marie Forleo's B school. So after I started jennyshih.com and I had the new website up and I was aligned, I was like, oh I need to learn about business. And I was so ready and I took the Marie B school program, this was back in 2011 and I took a module, I would go through, you know, there was a model every week for six weeks.

And I would go through a lesson and I would implement it right away and I would take action and it just clicked in my brain. It was like when you hear something that you've never heard before and it makes a thousand percent sense and never, ever, I never thought I'd go for it. And that's what happened when I took her class is I really just got like, okay, I understand marketing, I understand what it means to speak this language. I understand how I need to put myself out there in these ways that I hadn't been.

Now, it doesn't mean that I made millions of dollars instantly, but it did start to coalesce so much and gave me real clear direction in my business. It was that kickstarted that next level for me. So being a part of Marie Forleo's B school, and I know a lot of entrepreneurs who have taken her B school that had moved on to a successful businesses.

Chrystabelle: Has it affected or has it inspired the way you run your own business coaching programs?

Jenny: Yes and no. I mean, so I've took B school and then back in 2012 I was in Marie's high end mastermind program. That was the last year she ran it. So I got to see little bit of behind the scenes of how she does and there's part of her business that I am not interested in mine being like that, and there's other parts of her business that I was like, okay, that is kind of interesting for me.

It's less about Marie and her specific example, but I just like to see what other people do because then I can gut check like, oh, this person's doing X. How do I feel about that? No, not for me. This person's doing Y. Oh, that's kind of interesting. What would that look like if I did it?

So she just became one of many people whose business model provided insights for me as to what I wanted to create for myself. I'm not a big fan of people just following the business model of other people because then you're not really creating this thing that sparks from your inner fire and that's really where you're going to create massive results. Yeah.

Chrystabelle: All right, now before we go on, today's show is sponsored by my messenger marketing agency, Chrys Media. We work with our clients to help them get more leads and increase engagement and sales with messenger marketing. Now if you're interested to learn more about messenger marketing and how it can help your business and go check out my free online training at hackyouronlinebusiness.com/messenger after today's show. 

Jenny, I want to talk about mastering the sales consults. So one of the most common fears that entrepreneurs have is actually jumping on a sales call, and knowing what to say to close that sale. So can you share some tips on how you approach your sales calls?

Jenny: Yeah, so the first thing is a sales call - when people think that.. Have this skewed version of selling, which is really common and I used to have this too, that it's our job to convince people to spend money with us. And so it instantly puts this pressure on us to do something that is impossible. We cannot convince any other human being to do something that they don't already want to do.

So the very first thing is to reframe a sales call instead of it is our job to convince them to do X. This call is to see if I can help this person going into it from this mindset of service, of showing up of how can I serve this person? Then the answer, like it's not a black and white scenario when if they sign up and pay you, fail if they don't sign up and pay you. It's more, let's see if I can serve them. And you can always win because even if you yourself can't serve them with your services, you likely can point them in a direction of someone or something that can serve them.

So then you instantly go in knowing that every single sales call can be a win. You can make a fan out of every interaction you have with that prospect. And that's something my friend Kendrick Shope loves to say like raving fans with every interaction. So that starts with the very first sales call. Don't put expectations on yourself or on that person that are impossible. Go in with this idea of being of service.

And the next thing to do is to ask a lot of questions to be able to know if you can help them. You have to know a lot more about them. Tell me what brings you on our call today. Oh really? Tell me more about that. How do you feel about that? What kind of results do you want to create? What does that look like for you? What will change in your life? Get really curious about these people and genuinely ask yourself, can I really help them? Would I like to work with them? Can I serve them in a way? I am here to serve people best. And as you're doing that, take notes.

Like write down very specific words they're using. I'm frustrated with my mother-in-law. I mean like whatever. Write down their exact words. Because once you know everything about them and you're like, okay, yeah, oh my goodness, I can totally help this person. You flip it back and say, all right, well you sign up for a call today to learn more about my blah, blah, blah, blah, blah package. So would you like to hear a little bit about what is involved in that? And they're likely going to say yes because people say yes for those things.

And then you're going to explain it. You're going to explain it using their words as much as possible. So you're not going to say, "we began with a 60 minute call. We then have three 40 minute sessions and then you can email me in between". No, it is not about logistics. It is, "this package was designed to help people like you who are very frustrated with their mother-in-law, but want to build really great relationships. And how we do that is, you know, over the course of six weeks we're going to...", and then you use some of their words, look at what's triggering you, whatever. I mean it depends on the industry. It depends on your [inaudible], a million little factors.

But you use their language to mirror back to them in appropriate and uncreepy ways, how you can serve them and then you simply say, what questions do you have? And shut up. So this is where a lot of people just start blabbering. "What questions do you have?" And then shut your mouth. Let them ask you questions and count to 10 in your head if that really scares you.

You're going to make a fan out of this person no matter how you serve them, if you go into the service. And that really that mindset can make a huge difference. Now there's a million little nuances that can make or break a sales consult, but that's at a high level how you want to proceed.

Chrystabelle: What really interests me was when you said that the sales consult calls are not meant for convincing that person. When you said that what I was thinking was because the whole convincing of someone happens before the sales call, right? Through your content, through your email news newsletters, am I correct to say that?

Jenny: I would say some cases, yes. Some cases, no. So a lot of times people get on the phone being pretty sure they want to hire, wanted to hire me or want to hire a whoever and they're pretty sure and, but they just want to like feel it out and make sure it feels right. Other times there's other types of people who are completely exploring. They're like I'm interviewing 10 people for this thing that I'm looking for. So I wouldn't say it's, it's going to depend on the person just in terms of how much of their content they've consumed so far.

Chrystabelle: Anything that I can do for my business to kind of warm them up and get them kind of ready to buy or to sign up as my client before they jump on a sales call with me?

Jenny: I mean it depends a little bit. So what I mean is sometimes people are just going to find you. So I'll give you a couple examples. One of the big strategies I used to get clients early on was to do a lot of guest posting and I would guest post and predictably after I kind of got my system down and knew what topics to write about and what sites to post on, I would post to guest posts and inevitably I would get 50 new subscribers.

And I would instantly get a consult or two and the person would say, yeah, I saw your post today on such and such a blog and I think I want to hire you. There was no other warm up necessary for that person. That person in that moment heard my podcast interview, read the guest posts, came to my website, liked what they saw, signed up our consult, was pretty ready to hire me. 

On the flip side, I've had a client who took my make it online program a time or two ago who was on my list for six years before she hired me. One of the things that I think can be detrimental is when we think that there's just one way that people become our clients.

And so it's our job to just understand that some people are going to find you on one day and hire you literally the next other people are going to follow you for years before they spend a dollar. And so your job, everybody's job is this: to show up consistently serving people in the ways that is going to connect with them, whether that's a blog or a podcast or social media or anywhere else, show up consistently serve your audience. And when people are ready, they will be ready. Their life circumstances or their situation will be such that they say, all right, I'm ready to hire that person.

Chrystabelle: So Jenny, once we have them on a sales call, what do you do if you hear hesitation from the prospect? Like if they were to say, I need to think about it, I need to check with my team first and I check with my husband first. How do you respond to hesitation?

Jenny: Great. You acknowledge it and you say, awesome. Thank you so much for sharing with me that you need to talk with your spouse. And this is what I learned directly from Kendrick Shope, so I can't take any credit for it. My best friend, an incredible sales coach, Kendrick taught me almost everything I know about sales and she says, you know, the magic words are, "thank you for sharing that with me. I understand how it feels. I understand how it feels to be in a position where you don't want to make a decision without talking to your spouse or discuss finances with somebody else".

You find a way to empathetically connect with the situation that your prospect is in and then ask them a question, what kind of things, not probing but genuine, so like you're talking to a friend. "Great. Could you tell me a little bit like what kinds of things might your husband be concerned about so that we can make sure that you have the answers to go speak with them" or I need to talk to my team. "Let me know what kind of questions your team has and I'll follow up with you on Tuesday".

But usually when somebody says I need to think about it, it's their secret covert of saying I'm not 100% convinced that this is the right product or service for me. And I don't actually know how to articulate that, but that's what I'm feeling. So I'm going to go think about it. And this way I also don't have to tell you on the phone because that's really awkward.

So anytime anybody says anything except yes, it's your job to see if you can get more information in a very non jerky way because there's a hidden objection there. And the key is to uncover what that hidden objection is so you can address it, cause if you don't know what it is, you can't address it.

Chrystabelle: So if they told you that I need time to think about it, how should we follow up with them? Like how often do would you recommend that we follow up with them and for how long?

Jenny: "Great. So you need to think about it. No problem. Thanks for sharing that with me. I understand that you need to think about it. I too like to think through decisions. I'm not a hasty decision maker. I'd love to be able to check in with you. And what's your process for thinking through like this? Should I follow up with you on Friday, will some time next week works best for you?"

I don't think Kendrick does this one, but this is like one of those things where you have to feel into yourself. It's very like Jenny Shih brand for me to say "when will you have that next action step completed?" So I didn't say it that way to them but, "Great. When should I check in with you? On Friday or would sometime next week be good?" "Honestly, we're going out of town this weekend and a few other things. So like next Thursday would probably be good." So see if you can get a date nailed down for when you call off.

As soon as you hang up the phone, send them an email, "So great to talk with you today, Sally, about helping you with whatever to help you achieve whatever results and I will as promised, I'll follow up with you next Wednesday, have a great long weekend with your family, whatever". Then next Wednesday. Follow up. "Hey Sally, hope you had a great vacation. I'm just following up as I promised I would to see what kind of questions you have. I know you wanted some time to think about it. I'd love to know what you thought about and how I can help".

Not close the sale, ask the question, ask the question what do they need? Because the reason they weren't able to answer on the phone is they needed some more pieces of information to come together and maybe those came together while they were gone or maybe they had some more clarity about their questions.

But it's our job as business owners to keep those conversations going and figure out what is the actual objection that the client has so that we can then address it and serve them. Whether that's by telling them that we really are a good fit to help them address their issues or if they should hire somebody else.

Chrystabelle: All right. Now before we end this episode, I'd like you to share - what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur?

Jenny: There's so many. I'll give you two lessons cause as a rule follower, I occasionally like to break rules. So I'm going to give you two. Biggest lesson number one, anything I do that I do just to make more money never works. But if I do it because there's a fire in me, it works way better. So basically I am such a fan of when people say like, well I think I showed her, so-and-so said I showed her the marketing stronger for this. I'm like blah, blah blah. I don't care because that is not going to work.

The thing that is going to work best for most heart centered soul based entrepreneurs is when they follow what their heart is calling them to do. If they're doing it just for the money, it's never going to work or not work very well. That has been a huge lesson of mine and so at any point I notice I'm like, Oh, this would be a smart thing to do, I stop myself because as much as that might make sense strategically and for our bottom line, it never really works in the long run.

And I think the second thing was personal business. Building a business and growing a business is one of the biggest personal development undertaking as you can possibly imagine and you have to evolve as a person if you want business to grow so your business will stay exactly where it is unless you as a human evolve your mindset evolve your thinking of all of your approach to life. You have to be a better version of yourself to grow a better version of your business.

Chrystabelle: Jenny, give us one big tip on how we can evolve ourselves as a better human being.

Jenny: I think everybody's situation is different and I'd be sort of short sighting any and everyone with just one particular tip. I would just say, look at your stuff. Look at your limiting beliefs. Look at where you're holding yourself back. Look at where you're self sabotaging and look at the things that you don't want to look at.

Notice what you're avoiding. Notice what you're not doing. Notice the excuses you're making, start to become the person who lovingly called yourself out on your own BS and find a way to get over it and to get through it or to change it or to shift it. We have to do that as business owners. Nobody is making us evolve. Nobody is making us grow our businesses, so we have to become advocates for ourselves, ass kickers for ourselves as well.

Chrystabelle: All right guys, go check out jennyshih.com after today's show. You can also learn more about closing prospect on sales calls at jennyshih.com/consults. So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Jenny. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes and links and everything that we just talked about today. So I want to thank you so much, Jenny, for coming on the show.

Jenny: Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun.

Thanks For Listening, My Friend!

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