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EPISODE 094: INTERVIEW WITH MY BUSINESS COACH GEMMA WENT ON HOW TO MONETIZE A SMALL AUDIENCE

Today I have someone I’m really excited to have on the show, Gemma Went. She’s my business coach and a multi 6 figure online business mentor and growth strategist.

Gemma helps online business owners take things to the next level with the right strategies, the right systems and a whole lot of soul. Listen and learn how she started her online business and grown it to a multi-6 figure business, her list building strategies, how to nurture your email list, and so much more. 

I wanted to let you know about my brand new Hack Your Online Business Mastermind that is now open for applications.

This 12 week mastermind is uniquely created for online business owners like yourself who are looking to gain access to the most relevant marketing and business strategies to grow and scale their online business without stress or overwhelm. 

If you want to learn more about the mastermind and apply to be a founding member, go to hackyouronlinebusiness.com/mastermind right away.

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"You don't need huge audience. But working on building that audience first, and while you're doing it, nurturing the relationship with them. So being really smart with your content and your engagement activity with them. You can get to a few hundred with that and be able to convert them, if you really put the time in, if you've targeted the right people."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • How Gemma went from digital marketing agency owner to online business coach
  • How she used SEO and networking to get her first few clients
  • Why doing the mindset work made the biggest difference in Gemma's business
  • One secret hack on how to find your ideal paying customer
  • What a bad funnel looks like and why it is important to nurture someone who says no instead of trying to force a sale
  • The importance of not being afraid to make mistakes
  • Why it is important to still listen to your intuition even if your coach or mastermind gives you advice

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Chrystabelle: Today I have someone I'm really excited to have on the show. She's a multi six figure online business mentor and growth strategist and I've been following her. I'm on her email newsletter list, I'm a huge fan of her work. She helps online business owners take things to the next level with the right strategies, the right systems, and a whole lot of soul.

She's been featured in and written for some of the world's top publications, like the BBC, entrepreneur magazine, the independent, the Telegraph, and the Huffington post. So here's my guest, Gemma went. Gemma, it's such a pleasure having you on this podcast with me today.

Gemma: Oh my goodness. I am thrilled to be here. Thanks for having me on. Super excited.

Chrystabelle: And here's the thing, you have an amazing, incredible entrepreneurial story. So you started out as a marketing assistant. You climbed your way up, you founded a digital agency, you left to work for other people, you lost your job while you were pregnant, and then you start this business. So expand on that. Tell us more about who you are and your backstory.

Gemma: Thank you. Well, yeah, it's been a ride. Oh my God. My first business which was a digital marketing agency. Which wasn't actually virtual, I had an actual office in London, which seems crazy to me now. And that was about 15 years ago. So it was kind of my first venture into entrepreneur land and I really loved it. I went back to being a consultant. Basically I was headhunted and I went back to being a consultant, working for other people for a few years, and then found myself seven months pregnant and jobless. So obviously not employable at that point in my life.

So I had to start my business, so it wasn't a big plan. It wasn't like, Oh, I'm going to go back and become an entrepreneur again. It was like, Holy crap, what am I going to do? I can only start a business. That's all I can do right now. So I started this business completely by accident and it was the best thing I ever did. I've loved it. And just growing this business literally from nothing to this multi-six-figure mark where I am now has been a joy, but it's been lots of ups and downs. It's been an absolute roller coaster. I've absolutely loved every minute of it.

Chrystabelle: My God. So that story, it sounds like, Oh, you know, I was seven months pregnant and whatever. I started my business, yada, yada. I'm here right now, no. There were a lot of things that went in between those years. Were you a single mom back then?

Gemma: Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I was a single mom right from the get go. I didn't have a job, I didn't have any of the income. I was staying in my friend's guest room. So I rented out my place cause I couldn't afford it. So I went and stayed at my friend's guest room and this business basically was kind of born then when my son was born and I had a laptop on the bed and that's how we started. So it was real humble beginnings. It was proper bootstrapping. I had no money, I was doing everything myself. So yeah, it was a struggle in the early days.

Chrystabelle: I love stories like this. Who do you mainly work with right now?

Gemma: Now I tend to work with female online business owners and entrepreneurs. I kind of accidentally moved into that. Originally when I started this business, I was a digital marketing consultant for brands and corporates. And then I moved into the small business world and stepped more into business strategy when I realized these business owners really didn't have any idea. So they didn't just need me for digital. It was for like a broader business strategy.

And I think because of what I've been through as a single mother and growing my business from zero, I had a penchant for female business owners because I understood the struggle, particularly if you're kind of juggling motherhood and things like that. So I started to really niche into the female market and I still worked with guys now, but it's mostly women that I kind of draw to me and my whole goal is to help them grow and scale a sustainable business and really help them turn their lives around.

Chrystabelle: I actually read that you had your first client when your son was five months old. So how did you juggle with starting a new business, finding new clients and then taking care of a baby as a single mum?

Gemma: Oh my God, it was crazy. I was mad as as a box of frogs, seriously sleep deprived, hormones, everything going. It wasn't easy, but I just kind of had to do it. That first client was a brand and I remember having to go to, cause I wasn't fully virtual then, so I remember having to go to London on the train to go for a meeting and leave my son. And it was crazy. Like all of that was a crazy time. Looking back now, I honestly don't know how I did it, but I think when you're in those situations, you just do it right. You just get on with them.

Chrystabelle: I think when you think about like, my God, I have to pay my rent, I have to take care of my baby. It's not just me. It's do or die. You got that first client, it is a corporate client. What did you do after that to keep on getting new clients?

Gemma: So I've got that first client and I knew I wanted to move out of this guest room as soon as possible, have our kind of our first home together. So I worked out how much money I needed to earn to be able to do that. So what revenue the business needed to bring in to be able to pay me a salary so that I could afford this place. So I had my targets and I realized really early on I could not cope with the stress of a feast and famine. Right? I needed to know what money was coming in. I needed it locked in. So I immediately looked to securing consistent recurring revenue.

And at that point the best way of doing it, cause I was working with brands and corporate, was to secure retainers. So I literally went out and tried to have conversations, grow relationships with brands and small business owners where I could agree a retainer to come up with a digital strategy to then roll out that digital strategy. And that's what I did. And I just went hell for leather to do that.

So I secured three retainers within that first six months when my son was nine months old, moved into our first sort of two up, two down rental and it all just took off from there. And for me it's kind of what I build my teachings and what I've built my business model on - is creating that consistent recurring revenue so that you're not constantly panicking where the money's coming from.

Chrystabelle: Okay. So it was retainer in the beginning. And of course, right now you've got your mastermind and things that are obviously more consistent. But when you went out, how did you find those people? Like the connections, because this was way before LinkedIn was popular, right? Like I don't think we had LinkedIn, you didn't jump on LinkedIn. You're like, Hey, I want to connect with you. Can I come down to your office? Kind of feel like this was back when you literally had to call or email them or like knock on the doors or something.

Gemma: No, you know what, there was LinkedIn, there was LinkedIn, so I, yeah, it was, it was there. It was there so I could use LinkedIn. I basically though, I mean I did use LinkedIn, however, my two biggest things to get those in one was like really digital and one was like really kind of analog. The analog one was I reached out to every single person that I knew in the kind of my old industry, everybody that knew and just said, look, this is what I'm doing now. This is who I'm looking for. I want to work with these kinds of people. This is what I offer. If you know anyone, would you just make an introduction to me? I make a recommendation.

So I did that and I've got a couple of conversations through that, which was really, really useful. I think one of those did turn into a client. And the other thing that I had done, and this is previously right, so when I realized I was setting up my business before my son was born, I got busy creating my website, getting everything ready so that I could actually operate the business as soon as I could. And I SEO-ed my website.

So I optimized it, which I did myself. I could work it out myself. I'm quite technical, I can understand those things. So I optimize my website. So by the time I was working, sort of four months later, I was on page one of Google. So I got a lot of people inquiring through Google search. So those are my two kind of main areas. It was search and it was asking for recommendations, but I also did have LinkedIn and I had a few people talking to me through that.

Chrystabelle: And this was actually back in 2013, so fast forward to now, hindsight 20/20 can you actually share what you did, the strategies and tactics that actually really worked in growing your business after that first year?

Gemma: Yeah. So after that first year, because what I was using to get the clients, I wasn't doing this stuff that we teach now, right? Build an audience, build your list, get the funnels going and all of the kind of stuff that we talk about now and we do now. I wasn't doing any of that. So in that first sort of like, God, you know what, the first sort of year, two years, my list was zero. My Facebook was just like a personal account where I talked to my family and my friends. There was no one business on there. Linkedin was updated and that was kind of running. But you know, I wasn't doing all this stuff and I was okay for a while because I was getting recommendations and cause I had the retainers, that was fine.

But when I started working with the small business owners, I realized that wasn't enough. So I really needed to start building that audience and for me it was really about understanding where my audience was and being an expert there. So going over and networking and engaging with people and just building an awareness of me while I then started to build the list. And then I used all the kind of tactics that we use now, you know, putting a really good opt in lead magnet together, getting people on the list and then nurturing a really good relationship with them that which is what always worked really well for me and just kind of getting my face out there. The thing for me was though that I had quite a lot of experience to draw on.

So I was a social media and digital marketing consultant for a long time. I had my business before, so I had a lot of stuff I could talk about. So going out and being the expert and being seen and being visible was really important to me. But for me I really needed to, and this is kind of where I come from now with the experiential funnels, it was about nurturing that relationship. So for me, the two things that became really important to grow my audience and grow a connection and then really attract them and convert them was my list, but also my Facebook group.

And so everything that I was doing with my marketing was sending them to my list and to my Facebook group where I then really nurtured those people. So wherever I was, I was sending them there. So if I was on LinkedIn, I would send them to an opt in or I would send them to my group. And the same was for everywhere else. I was appearing online. And I just slowly built it. It wasn't a fast growth. My list was tiny for ages, but because I was really helping on creating that relationship and the connection with them. My conversions were high.

Chrystabelle: And I want to talk about your audience and also want to talk about funnels in a little bit, but I want to talk about your story a little bit more. So what would you say was that defining moment in your business that really just kind of took your business from a straight line and it just went and shot right up?

Gemma: Yeah. Okay. For me it was doing the mindset work. So it wasn't even a strategy, but the strategy followed. But I think when I realized I needed to get visible in my business and I started doing that a lot of fear came up. Fears of visibility, fears of judgment, which lot of us have. So I did a lot of mindset work and that was the year that things would need to cough because as soon as I became aware of those fears and then dealt with those fears, I felt more able to just get out there and do things. Whereas in the past, I think I probably held myself back a little bit through fear of judgment.

Once that had gone, I really stepped things up. So for me, once I dealt with my mindset stuff... I say dealt with, we're always dealing with it. It never goes away. It's like an onion - layer after layer after layer. But for me it was then when I started to think about scaling and being able to serve more people. So it was when I introduced the masterminds into my mix. So up until that point, it had been very much one to one work and that same year that I was did dealing with my mindset stuff, I really started working with masterminds and then my business exploded. I added a hundred K my revenue that year.

Chrystabelle: Can we talk about how you got the idea to start a mastermind and what did you do to get the first few people into that mastermind?

Gemma: Yeah. Okay. I wish it was this big, amazing planned out strategy. It was an accident. I hadn't planned it. So here I was merrily doing my one on one work, right. And I spoke to someone about masterminds and I was like, Oh, that sounds really good. I think I'd like to do that. And literally from that idea to then starting the mastermind was about a month and a half.

So I had the idea, I put it out to the audience that I had and they were quite connected with me by this point. I'd nurtured a relationship and really focused on connecting with them and I just put it out and I said, Hey, I'm thinking about starting a mastermind. Would anyone be interested? This is what it looks like. No elaborate sales page, no launch.

And a few people like put their hands up and were like, yeah, we are interest in that. So that was it. I started with six people on my first mastermind, which I think was five or six months and I loved it. So it wasn't big. I just went out and did it and beated today and then fell in love with it and then grew it from that.

Chrystabelle: Did you sell the first few people who got into your mastermind, did they pay like a much lower price so you could get them in and then eventually raised the price up? Or did you just charge right from the start?

Gemma: No, it was quite low priced to begin with, because I was kind of, cause it was new and I knew I wanted to test a few things out, I was like, yeah, I'm just going to go in a low price. And then once I've figured out what I want this to be like, I can then raise my prices later. So that's exactly how I did it.

Chrystabelle: Now I want to come back to the mindset part because it's so interesting. Every time I talk to a successful entrepreneur like yourself, they always bring up this mindset thing and it's always so interesting to feel like they're just humans like us. Like if you're listening, you're like, everyone is human right. We all go through mindset stuff like you said. So what I'm curious to know is what did you do on a daily or weekly basis to get past those mindset fears?

Gemma: I still do it now. Like it never goes away ever. It just gets easier because I think once you recognize what's going on with your own mindset, what resistance you have, what stories you have, what negative beliefs you have. Once you recognize that and realize what it is, it's easier to deal with it. Whereas before you do that, it knocks you for sicks. It can just make you want to hide. It'll make you stay stuck. For me, I have to do daily mindset routines. I prefer to do them in the morning and the things that really helped me is journaling, so just getting the stuff out from my head and writing it down. So I will journal for awhile.

I also love the emotional freedom technique tapping, which really it was kind of tapping on different points around the things that are coming up for you, around your fears around things that are on your mind. And it helps to just kind of shift your energy, which is a really nice way of kind of clearing blocks and things that you have. And I also love meditation. So just to kind of quiet my mind a little bit, otherwise my mind can just like race off into all sorts of different areas. So if I can just kind of ground myself a little bit and meditate, I feel a lot better. So that's something that I can do every morning and takes like 30 minutes and then it sets me up for the day. I really notice when I don't do that, it makes a massive difference.

Chrystabelle: So I think I've tried tapping before. I haven't stuck to it. Meditation, I try to do it as much as possible, but sometimes I just wake up and my mind races off to like work or whatever. Gemma, you are a business strategy coach, you've got background in digital marketing, you are a mentor. How are you trying to differentiate yourself from the other business coaches and mentors out there? What are you doing differently or how are you trying to brand yourself differently from the rest?

Gemma: Yeah, I think for me it's about my mixture of skills because I do, my whole method is around mindset, strategy and taking action. Like everything that I do, my business is about combining those three elements. And I think that my mixture of experience bringing that together really helps that to happen. So, you know, I have a psychology degree so, and I've done an awful lot of work around mindset. So I know what I'm talking about when I come, when it comes to those things. In terms of strategy, I've always had this absolute innate ability to just map out strategies and because I've also got the digital marketing stuff, so I've got the business strategy down around, you know, finances and revenue and business models and all the things that are going to help someone to grow. But also I've got the digital marketing and the sales strategy stuff.

So that whole mixture together works really well. And then the taking action piece, so how you can get people to take action really fast and consistently and all of that of molded together I think brings something unique as well as my experience of working across brands and corporates and small business owners. And you know, I've sat on the board of directors at two different big agencies. So I've seen big businesses operate and I bring all of that knowledge to smaller businesses to really help them to create that strong foundation for growth.

Chrystabelle: Before we go on, so today's show is sponsored by my messenger bot marketing agency, Chrys Media. There are five reasons why your business needs a Messenger bot in your marketing strategy, and I share them in a free resource that you can download at hackyouronlinebusiness.com/botguide. Gemma, you were in digital marketing, you've got a lot of digital marketing knowledge. Are you currently using Facebook messenger marketing for your own business?

Gemma: Ah, yeah, I am actually. But at the moment I'm not automating but where I do, which I may do in the future because I've got my 2020 plans are really all about systemizing and automating more. I think I'm going to be looking at that. What I do use it for right now though is to really nurture that conversation. So taking people from engagement on social into messenger and really having a deeper conversation and creating relationship, that's where it's really apt for me and you know, I can sell in messenger without actually having a call with anyone, which is amazing to be able to do that.

Chrystabelle: That is a great pitch for those of you who are thinking about using messenger marketing as your marketing channel. But Gemma, what I'm interested to find out from you is you've talked about how you've grown your business to a multi-six-figure despite you saying that you've got a relatively small audience. So I'm curious, are we talking about the size of our email list or social media lists?

Gemma: Across everything, because when I think of audience, I think of it across everything. Now, obviously you're going to have some of the same people on your list that are in your Facebook group, for example, or on your Instagram. But for me, I'm kind of looking across everything. Yeah. As an audience.

Chrystabelle: I know most of us are really fixated on growing our list. I mean, I'm definitely one of them, which by the way, even if you are a service provider like myself, you still need a list. Gemma, what did you do to turn your small audience into big money results?

Gemma: You know what, I think it was about really understanding what that audience needs. Doing that research, understanding what they needed from me to get to where they needed to be, and then coming up with services and programs that can do that. Having that and then creating the content that leads them just naturally by the hand to those products and services really works brilliantly. And I think, as I said earlier, nurturing that deeper relationship with that audience, no matter how big or small means that you're going to increase your conversion rate. So when you, when you're doing that and you're putting that great content out, leading them to these products, it's going to be more them than actually convert and turn into customers.

And to me it's always been about that like nurturing who I have not getting obsessed with bringing in new numbers and just making the most of the people that I have in my audience, some of my audience, and I've really noticed this, some of my audience have got like a two year lead time. I have people joining my mastermind who I've not even seen and I've never spoken to and I'm like, Oh my God, what did you come from? And I've been on your list for two years, I've loved you for two years. I was just ready now. And for me that's what it's about. Like you're continually nurturing these people, giving them what they need until they're then ready to come and work for you, work with you sorry. So I think for me, that is what's really created that.

Chrystabelle: How did you figure out what your small list wanted? Because you talked about that. You said first figure out what they want, so what did you do to figure out what they wanted?

Gemma:
Ask them. Wherever they are, ask them what's your biggest problem right now? Like why are you not growing your business? What's in the way? What's getting in your way of doing this and really getting clear on that. It helped having a Facebook group because in that you can just get into that conversation and because it's more private in there, it's not public. They're more open to talking about exactly what their struggles. That's what I do a lot of that and I still do that today. I also go and research and this is some great places you can research and find out what your audience is talking about.

Like for me, the things I've done in the past is going onto that site, answer the public and see what people are actually searching for, which I think is brilliant. Going to find some really good industry books on Amazon and then going through the comments and seeing what people are saying that their struggles are which is always a great one. I would go look at business strategy or on small business growth and things like that, and then see what people are saying in the comments and use that. So it's about spending the time listening and then putting together the stuff that you think is going to really help them.

Chrystabelle:
I didn't ask you this, but how big or how small was your, your list when you first started out?

Gemma:
It was only about 2000.

Chrystabelle:
Oh, that's a small audience? I think some of my listeners are like... I've only got 200 people!

Gemma:
But you know what, so did I. I had 2000 and I think it was year two. So between year one and the end of year two I only had a few hundred and then it got to like the end of year two and then I had 2000 and then it grew out from that. I got clients and I did well. I got to six figures with a tiny, tiny list.

Chrystabelle:
Got it. I kind of feel like some people, they struggle with the fact that when they have a small list, they kind of feel like they're just selling the same people over and over again. Do you ever struggle with that idea that you're just selling to the same people over and over again?

Gemma:
No, because you know what, number one, they didn't read all your emails. Number two, they may not have been ready for the thing when you last sold it. With my mastermind, cause my business is six years old now. So I think I can look back at when people are engaged and when they were with me and so on. And I know people that joined my mastermind in the last launch, that have seen so many of my mastermind launches and didn't join,aAnd yet for this one they did. And it's a case of, Oh I'm ready now. I've had my eye on this for a while and I'm ready now. So that's not a problem for me at all.

Chrystabelle:
Okay. That's a good point. I told you I went through the online business quiz on your website and one of the suggestions in the quiz results was actually to build my audience. And what I'm trying to understand is if I'm actually able to turn a small audience into big results, how much time and effort should I actually focus on building my audience?

Gemma:
Yeah. In the early days and when I worked with my clients, we work a lot on building that audience, but not to a massive audience. Like you don't need huge audience, but working on building that audience first, and while you're doing it, nurture a relationship with them. So being really smart with your content and your engagement activity with them, you can get to a few hundred with that and be able to convert them if you really put the time in, if you've targeted the right people.

So a lot of people talk about client avatars and ideal clients. I go for the ideal paying client, like the client that can actually afford you. If you know who that ideal paying client is, where they are, what they need, and then get them on the list and give them as much value as you can so they start to really see you as the person that can help them solve their biggest problems or, or bring their biggest desires to life. Then you don't need many of those people to be able to start converting them into clients.

Chrystabelle:
Give me one of your top secret trick or tip that you don't normally share except to your clients about finding those paying ideal audience?

Gemma:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a really important one. For me, you know what, the thing that did it for me was the quiz and it came from the idea of segmenting because there are a lot of people on my list. Imagine the people that I attract, they are small business owners and entrepreneurs and some of them are in the really early stages and they just want to learn from my content and I'm good with that. I have no issue with that whatsoever, but I need to differentiate them and segment them from the people that, okay, these people are ready to invest now that I've done this for a little while and now they want to go further and now they're ready and they have the money to invest in this stuff.

So for me it was about identifying them once they were in with me. So I wanted to segment them so that I knew, okay, who are the people that are ready, that I can go to with these offers and I'm more likely to convert them and who are the people that they need a year or two? Getting my free content, building relationship, being in my free group until they're ready to work with me. So it was segmenting through my list, which then brought me to my quiz, which does exactly that.

Chrystabelle:
Now another thing I want to talk about is funnels, but not the funnels that I might be familiar with. So in your business, you've talked about something called experential funnels. So these are funnels that actually spark feeling, they create luxury and scalability of systems and automation without actually being robotic or unfeeling or cold. So how are you actually using experiential funnels in your own online business?

Gemma:
Yeah, and this is really important to me because as we've all been through those funnels where we just feel like, I feel like I've just been sold to, and I've just got these horrible messages and it just doesn't feel very nice. And for me, and this is back from my digital marketing days and working with brand days, every single touch point with a client is a customer is a way to create an experience and a way to connect deeper to them. So for me, that is what a funnel should be.

So every single touch point of the funnel, from the very first moment they experience you to when they might convert and buy something from you and however long that takes is a really nice experience. So actually mapping that out and making it different to everybody else's. And you're using the same stuff as everyone else's funnel, right? It's still a lead magnet. It's still a thank you page. It's still an email, it's still a Facebook group, it's still other content, but you're doing it in a way that really connects at a deeper level and you're adding in those kind of real soft touches where you can actually talk to them. Like for example, finding them and actually having a conversation with them on messenger, sending them a video over loom or [inaudible] or something like that. Just to surprise them. You know, one of the things I do in my email sequences is I invite them all the time to speak to me and it's like constantly asking them questions and I'm also not always selling to them.

Like it's very rare. I have an email sequence that they join and that's just full of high value content. Every Thursday they get an email from me that's really high, funny content. Somewhere in there that might be me promoting something, but it's very, very rare because it's more about adding value and in there I'm asking questions, I'm like, tell me what you think of this, and then I get an email and then I can start responding to them and build that relationship even more.

So I build that in every point so that it feels like they're getting to know me. It's not polished. It's completely me, so that they're actually feeling like they're kind of almost like they're a friend of mine by the time they've been through this funnel, and I think everyone can do this. It doesn't have to be this real push to the next stage and then the next stage and then using these sales tactics to convert them. It's about creating that relationship and then offering the offer or the product or the service at the right time when they're more likely to come back.

Chrystabelle:
Can you give us an example of a bad funnel, a cold funnel that you're just like, this is not what I want you guys to do.

Gemma:
I was in one the other day. Oh my God. And it's so disappointing, right? Because I liked what the guy initially was talking about. There's a guy and, you know, as we spoke earlier, I really love things like meditation and thinking and mindset and what constantly working on that. And there was a guy talking about meditation techniques and it was a really great bit of content, right? It was on a Facebook ad and it was a lovely bit of content and I was reading as I really liked it and there was a click through to a video, and I said oh I'll do this.

So click through and watched the video. Video was great, right? And then it said opt in for something. And the minute I opted in, I was then asked to buy something. And then I clicked no and I couldn't click away. And then it offered me something else and then offered me something else. And then I'd already had been bombarded by an email, and in the email it's like buy this now. And they're selling meditation tapes.

And it was just like, no, this lovely feeling that I initially had from the piece of content has completely gone because you've bombarded me constantly with all these messages. So I clicked off and I will never click back on again. And I think that is what people get wrong.

Chrystabelle:
I think what he was trying to do was to follow that downsell funnel method, right? So someone says no, now you downsell them and you sell them something else. So in your opinion, Gemma, what should he have done instead?

Gemma:
I think he should have continued with the great content that he had. Obviously if you want to offer something there, offer something there. And if the person says yes, just give them the thing. Don't keep upselling and constantly adding other things. If they say no, let the no go and use some really good content and follow-up emails to then make an offer later on so you can take it much slower. It's like really kind of forcing the issue too fast. And I think a lot of people don't like that. So for me, that's what I would have done differently.

Chrystabelle:
And do you plan on reaching out to him and actually telling him, Hey, I think you need to draw my mastermind because you're not doing this correctly.

Gemma:
Probably not, but that's a good idea.

Chrystabelle:
Now, Gemma, before we end this episode, I'll like you to share what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur?

Gemma:
Oh my God. One. How am I going to come up with one?

Chrystabelle:
Well two if you want to, or three.

Gemma:
Well, my first one, don't fear making mistakes or getting things wrong because actually a lot of my biggest successes have come from my biggest mistakes. James Wedmore talks about, it's a lovely quote that I keep reminding my clients about: either you get the result that you wanted or you get the lesson you needed. And I think, you know, we have to take action and we just have to go ahead with our ideas whether we think we're going to fail or not because that's where the learning is or that's where the results are.

So for me it's like just don't be afraid of failure. And a lot of that is kind of mindset staff and fair and the stuff that we bring up around judgment and whatever. That would be my first one. My second one would be, and this is an interesting one considering I'm a business mentor, right? I think a lot of small business owners place too much of their future and their business in the hands of people like me and business coaches and business mentors and I love that you raised your eyebrows.

Chrystabelle:
I would like you to just kind of expand a little bit more on that comment.

Gemma:
And here's the thing. Your best mentor is yourself like and we forget to actually listen to our intuition and I think it's particularly in the early days. Yes, of course you need a business coach and yes you need a business mentor, but not for every single decision like you are the best guidance for you and you know what's right for you. You know what's in alignment with what you truly want, what's in alignment with your values.

Yes, you can use someone like me to guide you on, okay, this is what the strategy should be and this is, these are all the things that you should be doing and these are the marketing things you should be doing, but actually don't outsource those really big questions. And I see a lot of people doing that and then they get pushed down a path that isn't right for them. So I think don't forget that you are your biggest mentor and listen to your intuition first and if it feels out of alignment then don't do it.

Chrystabelle:
That is so true because I was part of a mastermind and when I was just sharing my stuff, someone gave her opinion that I didn't agree with because it just felt so far from what I believed in. So it's really just down to you. If you're listening today, it's down to you to decide what's the best extra to take. At the end of the day, tou can go to a coach and go to a mastermind and if it's not the right advice for you, it's just isn't. So guys, you have to go check out the online business quiz that Gemma has created. We've talked about it. It is truly one of the most useful business quizzes I've ever taken in my life.

So you've got to go to gemmawent.co.uk after today's show, the quiz is right on the homepage. Click on it. This is a quiz that will show you what business level you are at and what activities you should be focusing on for that level specifically rather than wasting time on things that aren't right for you.

So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Gemma. Head on over to hackyouronlinebusiness.com. You can find the show notes, the links and everything that we just talked about. Gemma, thank you so much. I appreciate your taking the time to come on the show today.

Gemma:
Thank you so much for having me.

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