Tarzan Kay

On this episode, we dive into what email marketing strategies that 7 figure email marketers know that you don’t know. Plus we chat about secrets behind an effective email auto sequence and using email to support your launches.

My guest and client, Tarzan Kay, is someone I first got to know listening to Amy Porterfield’s podcast. She’s an email marketing expert and former copywriter-for-hire, and helps freelancers attract better clients who’ll reach deeper into their pockets to pay for top-quality services — also using the power of email.

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"The most important thing probably when it comes to email is being consistent with it. When you're new in business and you don't have a lot of subscribers, you might email them once and forget about them for 3 months and be like oh shit, now they're cold and I have to start over. Consistency is so, so important and you do have to email like  more that is initially comfortable."

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Topics Discussed In This Episode:

  • Dropping out of law school and Tarzan's entrepreneurial journey
  • What working with clients like Amy Porterfield taught her about business
  • The pivotal moments in Tarzan's business
  • What 7 figure email marketers know about email marketing that we might not know
  • Tarzan's tips on email auto sequence and emails during launches

Resources Discussed In This Episode:

Let’s talk about email marketing on today’s show. I am a huge believer in email marketing, and today’s we’re gonna dive into what email marketing strategies that 7 figure email marketers know that you don’t know.

Today’s guest is something I first got to know listening to Amy Porterfield’s podcast. She’s an email marketing expert and former copywriter-for-hire who specializes in fun-to-read, more-addictive-than-Game-of-Thrones email copy. That was written by her and already sounds cooler than what I usually say.

She also helps freelancers attract better clients who’ll reach deeper into their pockets to pay for top-quality services — also using the power of email. Here’s my guest, Tarzan Kay. Tarzan, welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

I am super excited to have you here. Like I said, I'm on your email list. I heard about you on podcasts. During our pre-interview, you said not to introduce you as a copywriter. I know you were a copywriter for some time, you even worked with Amy Porterfield. So what made you decide to switch from copywriter to email marketer?

Well, I been transitioning out of a client based business for a couple of years. Like it's taken awhile to make that transition. I was working as a copywriter. And really quickly, like I started my building, my own brand and I started to niche down into email.

And then I started to feel more excited about writing for myself and teaching about email. So that's like firmly where my business is now selling courses and digital programs.

So I have had this conversation many times on other podcasts, like, please don't call me a copywriter because then I get people asking me, like, can you write my email sequence? And it's cool. I like, I love that. I get to refer to other copywriters, which I do a lot of that. It feels so good. But also, it's not that fun to be turning people away all the time. And it's important for me to be clear, like here's what I actually offer.

Awesome. And how did you become an entrepreneur? So what's your entrepreneurial story?

I had many years of like dabbling as a dabbler for a long time and my whole life, like I'm 35. I can count the number of weeks in my life where I have worked full time.

I've never really had a traditional job. When I was in university, I taught music lessons. I taught piano lessons and singing lessons. And then I just sort of, I always was able to kind of eke out a living if not a very good one, just by like doing little jobs here and there. And I've always really valued my freedom more than I valued having a consistent paycheck.

And then a couple, well, four years ago when I started my business, I was like, okay, now I want freedom, but I also want a consistent paycheck. I think I can have both at the time I had a, I had a one year old son and my partner and I decided that he would stay home with the kids and I would like take financial responsibility for the family.

So I would consider that's when I officially started my business, even though prior to that, I was like dabbling and freelancing a little bit. But I wasn't, I was just sort of like, you know, as long as I can make the rent or live somewhere for free preferably. So I don't, I kind of don't count those years.

Although I did get some experience building websites and writing copy, but officially I started my business in 2016. So I'm going I'm in my fifth year of business now.

That is so cool. And I read it. You were actually in law school, right? You were there for three years and then you dropped out of it to start your own business.

Yeah. So first I went to music school where I studied jazz piano for three years. And then I went to law school, took a short break and then went to law school for three years. By my third year of law school, I was just like so unhappy. I was so unhappy and everything in my life reflected my unhappiness at work.

You know, I hated, I didn't like school. I didn't fit in there. I was like in a relationship with someone who didn't love me or respect me. And I was just in such a bad way. And so I left law school, even though I was quite close to having a degree. And the idea was like, I'm just going to take a semester off.

And of course, my mom was horrified because she had told all of her friends that her daughter was in law school and was going to be a lawyer. And she was so excited because I was the first person in my family to even go to university. And I'm, I'm one of six, like I'm the last of six children. And my parents, like my parents didn't go to university.

So it was a big deal for them to have someone who is like doing the respectable thing. And so it was hard for her when I dropped out. But I, I did. And I went to Australia for a year to like, I was just planning to go for a couple of months, but it ended up being a year and it wasn't really a year of change.

It was a year of like transition. It was sort of like a buffer a year before I just to like, I don't know, figure just to spend some time being Tarzan and not pursuing goals or not pursuing an education, just like being. And when I got back, that's when I, that was sort of the start of the next phase, where I eventually did start the business that I have today.

Honestly, I cannot imagine you being a lawyer because... for those of you who don't... like, this is going to be just audio, but Tarzan has this amazing pair of glasses on right now that does not scream lawyer at all. Like your entire website just does not scream corporate boring lawyers. So I am so glad you did not end up being a lawyer to be honest.

I have quite a number of students and participants in my mastermind that are former lawyers or transitioning out of being a lawyer. I've got a lot of lawyers around me and I'm like, Oh yeah. Okay. This is what I would be doing. If I had been a lawyer, I would probably still be doing what I'm doing. I just might be in transition.

So when you started your copywriting business and eventually moved into email marketing, Can you share those first few years and the things that you struggled with, like what was probably the most difficult thing about running your business back then?

So in the early days of business, like you just have to be so scrappy, like you have to have really good short game just to keep the money flowing in and getting clients. I started growing my email list right away. And when I had 35 people on my email list, I made a commitment to send biweekly emails. And that was one of the most important commitments I've ever made to my email list or to my business in general.

So I started email marketing from the very early days. And one of the important visibility opportunities that I had in my first year of business is.
I participated in this email copywriting contest. And this was before I considered myself a specialist, I was just a copywriter kind of trying to find my niche. And there was this contest and I think it was hosted by Unbounce or something. I forget. Anyway, I participated in this contest, it was run by two sort of influencers.

And I was like, okay, I am going to participate in this contest and I'm going to win this contest. And I did. I spent three days, like doing nothing, but like trying to win. I had a suspicion that it would be important for my business and it was important. It was really important. Those, the, one of the judges was, he was at the time working with Amy Porterfield had been for many years.

And through that contest, I developed a relationship with him. His name is Ray Schwartz. He's an incredible copywriter. I took all, any training that he did. I took it and learned from him. At some point he was like, you know, I, my business is going in a different direction and Amy's going to need some copy support, and I think you guys might be a match to work together.

And it took some time for that to come to fruition, but it did, that was ended up being as important as I thought it would be doing that contest. And in the meantime, I kept at it with my email marketing and it took some time. It took like email marketing is really long.

It's a long game strategy. Like when you think about nurturing your email lists, like that's not a strategy so that you can make sales tomorrow. That's a great strategy for making very easy sales six months from now. So I've, and I've always been playing that long game with my email list and I'll never forget the first time I made an offer to my list, which was about a year I was about I'd been emailing them for almost a year biweekly.

I was just so blown away by the response. I was like, Oh my God. Oh, wow. People actually want to buy from me. Like, this is totally amazing. And I have never looked back. And for the first, like, let's say I just completed my fourth year in business. And I added Instagram four months, five months ago, and I have not created free content.

Like I don't do weekly blogs. I don't do a weekly podcast. I don't do like, I haven't done weekly, anything other than writing email, like my whole business. To the, like almost just, you know, high six to the high six figures last year was built on only email and I've now added an Instagram and now I have like helped with my content.

So I'm doing more channels that I know that's something anytime I've spoken about, that really resonates with people because we often think that we have to do everything and you really don't. Like I focused on that one channel and I really committed to it and it really paid off.

You haven't been creating things on Instagram and all that stuff. So how have you been growing your own email list?

Well, I have always, uh, not always, but I have sporadically invested in paid ads and I never put a lot of money in like the first time I ran paid ads. I was one year into business and I was doing my first ever launch, which was an affiliate promotion of the school.

And it had 750 people on my email list. And I was like, you know what, I'm going to do some list building going before going into this launch. So I added another 750 people onto my email list. And I had a successful lunch, I would say like for that time in my business, it was very successful. I didn't run ads again until a year later.

And what I found was like, because they don't create free content, the organic growth I was getting pretty much just like helped my list, stay at zero, you know, cause there's people unsubscribing and then there's some new people coming on. So a year later I still had about 1500 people on my email list.

And I'm coming up to be school again. I'm like, okay, I'll run ads again. So I doubled my list again to 3000 people. And then another year later I was still at 3000 people and it was like, okay, I have to like, like, by that time I was very aware. This would have been like, now we're up to January, 2019. I've been in business for three years.

And my list is at 3000, but I also, my whole business is powered by email. So I'm very aware what a difference it would make. If I. Invested in list building. So all throughout all of last year, I strategically was like running ads to a freebie and to an evergreen funnel and growing my list. So I invested about a thousand dollars a month.

Most of which I got back right away. And I grew my list from 3000 to 10,000 people last year. And I also grew my revenue from 400,000 to 800,000. And so much of that. Like I had some of my biggest launches last year, and I know it's due to the fact that I invested in growing my list, like such a difference.

So this year now I'm like really doubling down on paid ads and do a lot of visibility and that growth as well. But I also am still sort of resisting. I know it would make a big difference if I had a weekly podcast or something like that. I'm just sort of like it's working without me doing that. So I'm not gonna do that.

You mentioned that you were working with Amy Porterfield, who is this really big, big name in the whole online business space. So I'm kinda curious, like did working with clients like any Porterfield inspired you to do certain things, certain ways in your business?

Absolutely. So, you know, what was really beautiful about my connection to Amy was when I started working with her, she was about to do this... Like this was at a really pivotal moment in her business where she was leaving her business partnership. And then she also started this whole weight loss and personal development journey. She started growing her team, like in a huge way, like I got in right before all of that happened, which was so beautiful that I got to have like a bit of an insider view on that.

And she's just grown her business so bravely and to me, such an inspiration to be able to see that. And I also like the amazing thing about Amy's brand is like, she's such a kind and loving person and her audience feels that so deeply.

And also the work that she's doing in her business and in her personal life and for herself, it's like, it really feels like she's doing it for everyone, not just for herself. And that's probably the biggest thing that I've taken into my business is like, when I, when I think about what I'm doing and the message that I'm sending and like how I show up as an influencer.

That's really important to me that I am not just doing this for myself. Like what, I'm, what I am achieving for my family and what I am like my growth and like the ancestral bonds that I am breaking through. Like, this is truly for everyone.

And now that you're five years into your business, looking back, would you have changed any part of the business or any business decisions that you've made looking back?

Well, I can point to, I don't know if this is quite the question, but I can point to a few different actions that produced a big shift for me. Or that were like really important milestones. Like there's a few important milestones and there's one recently.

That's like probably the biggest milestone, but I'll get to that last. So the email challenge was probably the first, well, actually the first big milestone was that I joined B-School. I had never bought an online program before. I had never invested in learning about business. I wasn't connected to any online communities.

Like that was huge for me. And I made that investment back right away and was like, Holy cow, there's all these communities online. And there's all these programs you can take. And there's this whole world of like launching and it totally rocked my world so much, which is why I promoted it for years. And then the email challenge, which was shortly after was really important.

Shortly after that, I hired a VA. Who's still with me today and she has a, like now she is my online business manager. She has a much more significant role in my company, but we've been building this together and making that commitment in the initially to pay her $500 a month was like enormous.

Shortly after that, I hired a bookkeeper. That was also another big milestone. There was a lot of things in, Oh. And, and then I joined a mastermind. So in that first year there was like so many big, big decisions that felt scary and that didn't feel safe, but I just intuitively was like, I have to do that. And I can't really explain to you why. I just know this is really important and I have to do it.

It's so funny, just right before we jump on this interview, I was talking to the last guest who was talking about using her intuition in her business. Sometimes you just use that intuition right, there isn't really a right or wrong answer. We just go with what our gut tells us to do.

Yeah, totally, totally, totally. And I want to share two more milestones because they have produced the most important shifts for me personally. And it's showing up in my business and really beautiful ways. So a couple of months back, I had one of my, someone who signed up to him.
Okay. I feel like I have to talk about this. I don't want to reveal anything that I'm not authorized to reveal. So I have to be careful by this, but basically I had someone in my audience call me out on like, not being aware of my white privilege. And it was like so hard to hear. And I felt like so shattered and I felt so shattered because I knew everything she said was so true.

And I'm so grateful to this person who will forever be in my life and in my journey. I realized like all these, I just realized how much my brand has been exclusive to like straight cisgender white women. And I was like, Whoa, Oh my God. Like, I have been so blind. I've been so blind to so many things and Oh my God, like, I'm totally at the beginning of like, learning about my privilege and what it means and what my responsibility is, particularly as an influencer with people who are like really watching what I'm doing and really like taking inspiration from me and thinking like I'm a role model.

So, it just like awakened me to some really important things that I'm still figuring out. So that was last September and I'm learning things and I'm like, now I have to like review everything that's written on my website and in my emails. I have this whole new, this new set of glasses on and I'm like, Oh my God, I can't believe I said that. Oh my God, I can't believe I said that. Like an example, right before you were about to read my bio, I realized just as an example, there's something on my speaking page, somewhere on my website, it's like a bio that, that people give out and it says like Tarzan teaches women. And in brackets it says, and a few good men.

And the last couple of times I've heard someone read that I'm like, Oh my God, I like, I like that is not inclusive language. And I don't want to do that anymore. I want to set the example for other people. That's a whole issue. That's like really important to me. And I feel like just thinking about those things has really deepened my messaging and helped me connect with my audience on a much deeper level, and also forced me to have really brave conversations and sets an example for other people to have brave conversations.

And if I may fast forward to one more milestone. And this was at the end of December. I had a session with my coach and I had just done 10 weeks of breathwork. So breathwork is like one of my primary personal development practices. And I had done 10 weeks once a week. And it was like a lot of rapid growth and a lot of things that I worked through.

And so I went in to talk to my coach and she just totally lovingly called me out on basically making my business all about like making money and achieving and really kind of missing the whole point to like, why are we here? And what are we really doing? Like once, like she forced me to confront the question of who am I other than a business owner.

And that was a really scary question to answer because my business has been so successful and I've really identified myself. Like I've my, my identity has become really wrapped up in my business. I spent weeks confronting that and thinking about that, and then. Several weeks ago. I did. So that's a milestone that's connected to this latest milestone.

This is milestones upon milestones. This latest one where I did a psychedelic journey. And when I went into, I went into that journey, knowing that I was looking for something bigger than myself, and to learn about myself and to learn why, what I'm really doing and why I'm really here. In that journey.

I had the most profound experience where I just felt so deeply connected to well, really, to all beings, but to keep it connected to business, there was a real dissolution of ego and there's so much ego in online marketing. It's all about how many subscribers you have and how many people on your email list and how much money did your last launch make like it's numbers and like who's the best.

And like, It is like all these patriarchal values that someone told me I was supposed to have. And it also caused me to think I was aware of this, but like, wasn't able to do anything about it. Like I felt like I was walking around with like on this high horse thinking like, I'm so great. I make so much money.

I'm so successful. I did it so fast. All these people follow me. I'm the greatest. That was sort of playing in the background. And I was like, I want to shut that down. And when I was on that psychedelic journey, it did shut that down. Like it shut down that ego side and I just felt so deeply connected to, and still do so deeply connected to the people in my life.

And particularly the entrepreneurs in my community who are also on this journey and who also like. Well, I mean, all humans, like we signed up for this deep and profound journey that takes a lot of bravery. And I realized that my mission and what I came here to do is really to tell stories and to give other people a medium, which is email.

To tell their stories because by telling our stories like that is how we get through this difficult journey of life. Like that's how we get through it together. Then one of my gifts is that I can tell difficult stories and make them sound funny. And that's why people are attracted to my brand. And through email, email is like the medium that I can teach people like, Hey, this can actually be a beautiful, fun and creative outlet for you rather than just like some chore where you have to rack up numbers and get subscribers and sales.

So funny just a couple of days ago. Well, not a couple of days. I think a couple of weeks ago someone was asking me like, what's the purpose behind your business? And for a moment it stopped me because I was like, what? The purpose of my business is to earn money, to support myself. Right? That's the purpose behind my business, but she was like, no, like what's the greatest purpose? What is the real reason why? What makes you really happy? What will make you really happy? And that question took me just a step back to really consider like, okay, I've got this marketing agency, I've got his podcast, but what's the real thing that, what am I really trying to achieve here?

And I think what I'm really trying to achieve here is to make a difference by impacting the lives of other entrepreneurs, specifically online entrepreneurs and way more beyond just like, oh, let's make money.

Right. I feel like a lot of times it's like, like what you said, like people are just so focused on what's your, like, how big is your email? How many did you get a six figure launch? For example, I was at five figures, seven figures right here. Everyone's so focused on like the number of figures.

There's also like a lot of dishonesty because. It's easy to skew the numbers. You can report instead of reporting what you actually made this month, you report like the numb, like your projected sales, like this is what's going to come in over the next few months without considering refunds and lapse payments and all these things, or like what you had to pay out to affiliates like, and I've done all this myself because it's so easy to present the best possible scenario of what I could have made.

This month, rather than like what actually landed in my bank account. And that's just one example. Like there's a lot, there's a lot going on. And I think people have one of the reasons people have resistance around email marketing is because they think that in order to be good at it, you have to be spammy.

You have to be aggressive. And you have to like, basically do stuff that doesn't feel good to do. And that is just not true. It's not true at all. The email can be like a great source of joy and fun for all involved. When I started my own business, everyone was like, you got to grow your list, right. That is such a common thing.

And so I tried to dive into email marketing and learn as much as possible. But of course, I don't know as much about email marketing as you do. So can you share some key email marketing secrets that only seven figure email marketers know about?

Okay. So one thing my friend, Laura Belgray says, I just saw this picture of her and she was standing in front of a slide that said, email your ass off.

The most important thing, probably when it comes to email is being consistent with it. When you're new in business and you don't have a lot of subscribers, you might like email them once and forget about them for three months and then be like, Oh shit. Now my now they're cold and I have to start over.

Consistency is so, so important. And, uh, you do have to email like, More than is initially comfortable. You don't have to email as much as I do. I email my list three times a week, which isn't actually that uncommon, but for a three times a week newsletter, like it's, it's a fair bit. And, but also I'm like a whiz at writing really funny and entertaining emails.

So that's not for everyone, but you do need to be consistent and probably send more than you think. Especially if you're in a promotional period, especially like. People do, they're not going to open every email and certain subject lines are going to grab them more than others. So you do need to like keep at it and back to the disc profile.

One of the, one of the profiles is, and I've talked about this on lots of other, I have a blog post about how to use the disc profile to write emails. So your listeners can refer to that if they want to hear more about this, but one personality is the yellow and the yellows are like life of the party.
Really fun. They love to laugh. They love to have a good time. They love emails that are silly and are entertaining that makes them laugh. They also are like notoriously late to the party.

So the classic yellow move is like the email you like a day after cart close. And they're like, I want the program. Can I get in or like sliding into home base at the last possible minute. Like, they're the ones that you need to email like 12 times before they're like, ah, I don't know. What is this? I don't know. Oh yeah. Okay. I meant, so we do need to email more than you think that you should.

One of the things I'm in a mastermind with a woman, Kate Northrup, who's so smart. And one of the things she said, which I've tried to say, but not as eloquently as she did, someone was like sort of hung up about visibility. I don't know if it was particularly email, but you know, something to do with being visible in their business.

And she said, is your mission more important or is not annoying people more important?

And when you think about it, that way, it's like, well, obviously like this is, and this is getting back to where we were just in the conversation. Like it is so important that we are firmly connected to our mission and the work that we came here to do, because when you are connected to that, when you are really deeply rooted in.

You are in your divine work. Like you are not going to feel bad about annoying people. If they don't like it, they can unsubscribe. That's always available to them in every single email. So like those seven figure, email marketers, like they are not sitting around worrying about like, what if people unsubscribe, like, is this too many emails? Are they going to be annoyed? Like, no, they are not worrying about that. They are doing what they need to do to get their message out without apology.

I am so glad that you brought up the promotional period or when you're launching something, because that was something I wanted to ask you about. When it comes to launches and using email to support your launches, what are some things that we need to know about how long should our email sequence be? How often should I be emailing our list, doing launches and et cetera. Can you just kinda share us some tips on launching?

Okay. So some tips on launching. A lot of people find launching very stressful. I enjoy launching and I'm pretty sure the reason I enjoy launching while others don't is because I am a real planner.

Like I have been working, I have a launch coming up in March or mid March to mid April, you know, a typical launch period. Prelaunch might be two weeks. Open cart might be another week. You know, it takes like a month. So I have been planning since December. I don't want to do things at the last minute, like I want to feel really prepared.

And when I'm actually in a launch, I don't want to be scrambling to write emails or Facebook ads. Like I want as much freedom as possible to talk to people because while all the automated stuff that we're doing is really important and we got to do it because that's the scalable strategies.

What moves the needle the most, particularly in the early days when you don't have that very high volume is talking to people, starting conversations in email, answering DMS, like all that stuff. I want to have as much space as possible for myself and for my team to do that. Another thing about launches, I've made the mistake in the past of trying to do everything and trying to do everything basically myself and maybe with a couple of helping hands.

But I think a lot of the things we do with launches is like, I'm trying to replicate what I saw James Wedmore do or so. And so that has a team of like 13 people. And I'm trying to add like all the like early bird bonus, mid cart bonus weekend bonus, close cart bonus, got to do a student livestream, trying to do everything.

And that's not how nobody's started out doing that. It's really exhausting. And. I also think your energy during a launch is so important. Like when you are launching your product or your program or your client offer or whatever, like your main job is that you are holding space for the hopes and dreams of all those people.

And if you don't have the energy to do that, like it's hard to be successful. I saw Jeff Walker give a talk last year. And this stuck with me really stuck with me really deeply how he said, he said like my job, my main job is to believe in it for you more than you believe in it for yourself. And when you can really do that, like when you really feel that deep love for your potential customers and you truly see what is available to them and the potential.

If they really like, if they buy your product and they really go all in with the implementation, when you really get there on your heart, like it makes a big difference, but you can't really be there when you're scrambling to just like get stuff done.

One of the things that I wanted to ask you was the industry average for open rates and click through rates for email marketing is 20 to 30% for open rates and single digit for click for rates. Do seven figure email marketers get higher open rates and click through rates, or is it just a matter of better copy and sending out more frequent emails?

No, it's actually lower because their volume is so high. So, you know, if you can maintain a 30% open rate when you have like over 50,000 subscribers, that is a damn miracle.

I would think like once you have a hundred thousand subscribers, like if you could have a 15, like the open rates go down a lot, basically. And as you click through rates, it's all obviously corresponding. So it is like one thing that is really cool about having a smaller audience is like, your numbers will act like you'll convert higher because when you have a small audience, you can connect with people on a more one on one level.

So, the baseline metric for conversion rate on a launch is one to 2%. I was just looking at some numbers with my ads manager yesterday. And my conversion rate, a launch I did in September was 8%. Like that's insane, but it's not sustainable.

Like I don't expect to convert at 8% when I have a hundred thousand people, like I had 10,000 people. Uh, and my launch list was much smaller than that. So that's like something that we just have to make peace with. Like we do have to be, I think when you're looking at your metrics, you always want to be in competition with yourself.

So rather than saying, like, so-and-so has this number of subscribers in this open rate. Well, like, okay, today I have a 20% open rate. You know, but as my list grows and let's say like, until I get to a thousand subscribers or whatever, like I would really like to have a 25% open rate. So I'm going to really work on my subject lines.

And that's my target right now. And then perhaps seek to maintain or grow that a little bit, like to think that you're going to smash baseline metric is. Not very realistic. And especially as you grow your audience, like it's actually going to go down. So if you like, it's a bit scary to look at your numbers.

And I think people find percentages and all this stuff can be a little bit intimidating, especially in the beginning. And when you have really low numbers, like if there's only a few hundred people in your launch or a few hundred people visiting your pages, Forget it, your metrics are not reliable because you get one extra sale and all of a sudden, your percent, your conversion rate went from 4% to 8% or something.

But as soon as you are, your launches are in like the 1000 person class then, or, and your email list as well. Like let's start looking at metrics like earnings per lead and open rate and click through rate of course, conversion rate on your launch. You gotta keep a look on those. Keep an eye on those numbers and set targets, but be in competition with yourself.

One thing I wanted to ask you was, as I was looking at my own email marketing strategy, I'm kind of a little bit confused with the whole email auto sequence. I wanted to clarify, I want you to clarify this for me. So once someone joins my email list, like how many emails should there be on my email nurture sequence? Is it 5? 10? Is there a formula?

Well, I don't think there's a proven formula that works better than others, and it really depends what you want people to do. Like in my own email list, there's a bunch of different freebies. So there's a, there's a special delivery email for each freebie. And then you get into a welcome sequence that has like five or six emails and there a couple of days apart.

That's how I have chosen to do it. Some people like Amy Porterfield, for example, she doesn't have a welcome sequence because she has a weekly podcast. So whatever you download next, you go into her newsletter segment and you're learning about her and her brand by getting those weekly podcasts emails. So not everyone necessarily needs a welcome sequence, even Marie Forleo, though I think now she does have a welcome sequence.

That's maybe two or three emails long. But she has her weekly show Marie TV. So again, like that's how people are getting to know your brand, her brand. Right. So I think, as you're thinking about your welcome sequence, like yeah, it's a great idea to have a series of five or six emails. I don't think there's a magic number.

That's the most important. I wouldn't recommend an automated sequence of more than like 30 days for a lot of reasons I won't get into, but. Bring them through the most important things about you. Like if you have, you know, like what's available, what do you do? What sort of services do you offer? What are some of your key stories you may need to have like a segmentation email.

If you have two different audiences, you might ask them to click some links. So you know, that they're this sort of person and not that sort of person, it kind of needs to be as long as it needs to be. But the most important thing is just to be consistent and keep showing up because if someone joins your email list, And then they don't hear from you until three weeks later, babe, they have forgotten all about you. They have no idea who you are.

That is so true. We gotta be consistent across everything that we do in our business, including that blog article that you're writing, that YouTube channel that you have. As we wrap out this episode, I would like you to share - what is the biggest lesson that you've learned as an entrepreneur?

I am learning new lessons every day, every day. I don't know that I could point to the biggest one. I guess what I'm learning now that I feel like I'm playing the long game is to consistently ask myself, like, if I were playing the long game, how would I do this? Whenever I'm looking at adding something to my business, like at some point you do have to let go of looking for short term results, like that's taken care of.

We have consistent revenue. We're okay. And now we have to think about like, where are we going? And to dovetail on that is like, that's where it's, it's really important to be connected to the bigger mission. And given that I've just figured out my mission. I'm really excited to see where my business goes now, because this is a huge revelation and I'm pretty sure it's going to change a lot, but I can't tell ya so exciting.

Alright. Guys, if you want to learn more about Tarzan's programs and working with her and go check out tarzankay.com after today's show. Get on her email list, guys, I'm on her email list and I learned just from receiving emails from Tarzan. So thank you guys so much for spending time with me and Tarzan head on over to hackyouronline business.com. You can find these show notes, the links and everything that we just talked about today. Tarzan, you've been absolutely amazing today. Thank you so much, my friend.

Thank you for having me, Chrys.

Thanks For Listening, My Friend!

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